Cash 4 Clunkers

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

After one week and the start of a new week for this program,what are your thoughts and how has it,or in the future going to affect you?
Good or bad.


I see it affecting the used parts business.

[gtrman66]

I'm waiting for someone who is much better off than me who could afford a new car, to thank me for helping to underwrite his expense.

I really see this as a foretelling of health care. Under funded, surprise at the influx of patients and care needed and broke nearly as soon as it starts.

[right$pecial]

Thus far it is going to cost me out the anus for the rest of my life and I'm not getting a new car out of it. My roommate, who works at a dealership, has told me that it is working, but it is not helping the less fortunate as intended because they still can't afford it. Furthermore, I thought the idea was to get people out of older vehicles and into super efficient vehicles, but from what I have been told the new buyers are all trading into trucks and SUVs that just make the minimum mpg cut. Now I have no problem with this, but I thought that this program was originally conceived largely to help the environment rather than stimulate the economy, but now that it is obviously boosting the economy via new car sales the administration is acting like this was actually intended to be more stimulus than green; in other words out leaders are still full of s#@t. Also, I fear that they will see this as proof that their ideas are worthy and keep up this kind of legislation...well the money(loans, printing press) has to give up at some point and we will all be left further in the hole for a short temporary economic boom.

[Remphoto]

Thus far it is going to cost me out the anus for the rest of my life and I'm not getting a new car out of it. My roommate, who works at a dealership, has told me that it is working, but it is not helping the less fortunate as intended because they still can't afford it. Furthermore, I thought the idea was to get people out of older vehicles and into super efficient vehicles, but from what I have been told the new buyers are all trading into trucks and SUVs that just make the minimum mpg cut. Now I have no problem with this, but I thought that this program was originally conceived largely to help the environment rather than stimulate the economy, but now that it is obviously boosting the economy via new car sales the administration is acting like this was actually intended to be more stimulus than green; in other words out leaders are still full of s#@t. Also, I fear that they will see this as proof that their ideas are worthy and keep up this kind of legislation...well the money(loans, printing press) has to give up at some point and we will all be left further in the hole for a short temporary economic boom.

Same thing is happening here in the Heartland. People doing trades are financially secure and are taking advantage of the situation. As an example, my daughter's inlaws have an old van they keep on the farm and use now and then to haul stuff. They decided to trade it in for a Vibe. Before they did, they took off the new muffler and siphoned out a tankful of gas (farm folk are pretty frugal). A local undertaker bought a repo from our bank a year ago for $400. He keeps it at his summer home in Lake Erie to run for groceries. He traded it toward a new flower car for the business. Would be funny, but it is all the rest of us subsidizing this boondoggle.

[MYCAR47562]

Well The Program Lasted Six Days Right?... How Are They Going To Make This Work? Seems To Me From What I Have Been Seeing It's A Waste Of Money

[Max]

I can't believe tax dollars are being used to the tune of 3 billion dollars to do nothing but support the unions IMHO. I think there are going to be so many trickle down cost from this that haven't been explained. While car sales taxes will rise, think about the billions lost in repairs by the service industry for cars that got replaced instead of the natural order repairs. I also heard today that the Import cars have been huge winners in the cash for clunkers program. Wouldn't we be better off if they just want to give the unions money to just give it to them?

Lets not forget many of the people taking advantage of this may not be able to afford a car but the price makes the purchase time now. So how many of those go into default. Think of the used car market value on cars one year old. You are upside down compared to what thousands similar to yours sold for so you lose. Now when these sales are over and we are back to square one with car sales flat, no repairs needed because every one has new cars. Well it won't be a pretty sight.

[right$pecial]

-Waste from well running vehicles being destroyed.
-Artificially created auto market=artificial mortgage crisis that we obviously learned nothing from.
-Again, people who can't really afford new cars getting them anyway.
-More money we collectively owe for no good reason.
-Small scale socialistic everybody has a new car and home scheme.
-The value of my new car, which I worked for and bought last year, will drop even more.
-People who can't afford new cars getting them anyway only to realize they can't afford the full insurance coverage that they are now obligated to purchase over the limited liability they had on their clunkers(which a lot of them are not).
-The media is largely hailing this as a milestone achievement for BO, which it is not, but it could be used to endanger all of us with a second term President.
-Lost wages for shops as they will now be covering more and more vehicles for warranty work which probably doesn't pay as well as normal repair service.
-More welfare babies who rejoice because they think BO made good on his promise to get them all into new cars.
-Ford sales are up, but at the same time the companies we bailed out are still in a giant hole.
-People will come to expect this sort of thing in the future which is about as big a step toward socialism as any...and most will be to stupid to realize it or too greedy to care.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

It's just a new word for bailout to move 09 stock.
What will they come up w to move the 10's?
I went looking at some of the clunkers at dealers and they all look like perfectly good vehicles.75% are pickups that would have brought a nice used retail price.

Green my ass.I'm sick of it and all the bullshit.
It takes more energy to manufacture a new vehicle than what meets the eye.I havn't seen a break down from start to finish,but I'm told a clunker can run for many thousands of miles and not exceed the fuel and energy it requires to build new.

[nelson]

When I first heard about this program (Randian shudder), I thought, 'what a really stupid idea.' First, we're blowing a bunch of cash in order to buy vehicles - to destroy them. That's just stupid in practical terms. Also, we're blowing this cash to manipulate the auto market in almost exactly the same way we manipulated the housing market. That's economically stupid. And finally, we're blowing this cash to subsidize purchases from companies that are supposed to be achieving self-sufficiency! That's incredibly stupid. Some of these companies our government experts have already purchased and redesigned so that they will achieve self-reliance (paradox is too kind a word to describe that; deceit is much more apt).

So in light of all this stupidity, I went to the CARS.gov (http://www.cars.gov/) site to look for one thing: a reason. My simple question is, "why are we doing this?" I found no answer! This is amazing to me. When so much money is being spent, with no reason clearly articulated, my first instinct is to suspect that this can only mean one thing: there is no good reason.

But despite no official reason being posted on the official web site, somehow I think I can magically derive what is surely the proper-sounding, media-massaged reason: to begin to eliminate some inefficient vehicles, increase our energy independence, help people buy new cars, and provide an economic stimulus... all at the same time! (This magical ability either proves me to be a genius, or really stupid.)

Well, those reasons are completely bogus in my book. I think they are at best excuses, and at worst outright lies. Blowing billions of dollars on clunkers will accomplish none of these things. So until I read this thread, the real "why" still escaped me.

But now you say it is a giveaway for the unions. And suddenly, I understand. Now all this stupidity is beginning to make sense.

Pray for me!

[nelson]

Woops. Didn't see this other thread. I am merging the two threads...

[nelson]

I didn't catch this on TV, but a friend of mine here in Ukraine did - and he mentioned it to me over breakfast. Just watch (or read transcript below). Amazing!

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Glenn Beck: Cash for Clunkers update
http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/28815/

[MYCAR47562]

But now you say it is a giveaway for the unions. And suddenly, I understand. Now all this stupidly is beginning to make sense.

Pray for me!

fixed it for you

[Jeb]

That is a blittle frightening!

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

It looks like the hype might be over from this C4C.
In the city,traffic is backed up again.I've received quit a few calls from people shopping for pre 93 automatic transmissions,2 have materialized since Monday.Saturday,the local Harley dealer's parking lot was filled,it had been empty the last 2.Monday my wife's Deli dept at WalMart could not keep the products on the shelves.I've had 2 inquiry's for installing 300mm tires on late model Harley's,looks like one is going to happen soon.
If the mini bike business would pick back up,I might make a decent income this year.

[nelson]

I would love to see the US use any economic cycle wisely, in other words to pay their debts aggressively, build savings where possible, and hedge against the currency devaluation we are seeing. This would be prudent in light of the political changes and waning international investment. I wonder how many of us will instead comfortably slip back to credit-based living.

What bothers me is that as our resilient economy does try to recover, many give-away programs, stimulus packages, and power plays will simply remain in place, as will tax increases intended to fund them.

[Remphoto]

I would love to see the US use any economic cycle wisely, in other words to pay their debts aggressively, build savings where possible, and hedge against the currency devaluation we are seeing. This would be prudent in light of the political changes and waning international investment. I wonder how many of us will instead comfortably slip back to credit-based living.

What bothers me is that as our resilient economy does try to recover, many give-away programs, stimulus packages, and power plays will simply remain in place, as will tax increases intended to fund them.

And watch out as the recovery unfolds. That's when we are likely to see rapidly rising interest rates which will choke off the economy and put us back into recession #2.

[MYCAR47562]

as i told rem last week credit rates are already going up chase raised mine 2 percent and wouldn't lower it.... so it went into the shredder, and now we are leaving the bank totally

[gtrman66]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_clunkers_not_so_green

SPIN METER: $3 billion buys not-so-green vehicles

Just how many consumers used the federal rebates to buy these larger, not-so-green vehicles is unclear. The Obama administration has declined so far to release detailed records of purchases under the program being compiled by the Transportation Department, listing every clunker deal requesting rebates. The Associated Press requested the data July 31.

Even the Top 10 list of mostly smaller, fuel-efficient cars that LaHood has cited as evidence of the program's success is being questioned. A different Top 10 sales list produced by Edmunds.com, an auto consumer Web site, from dealer sales data shows fewer small cars and more large vehicles like trucks and utility vehicles make up the best sellers.

So much for transperancy. So much for "green". If you bought a car using MY money, then I guess you are welcome.

[Max]

Every action has a reaction, from an article I was reading today.

They said the program -- which gives consumers cash to swap aging gas-guzzlers for new, more fuel efficient models -- had pulled spending away from other sectors.

About 1/4 way down http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN1322747920090813?rpc=44

[right$pecial]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_clunkers_not_so_green

SPIN METER: $3 billion buys not-so-green vehicles

Just how many consumers used the federal rebates to buy these larger, not-so-green vehicles is unclear. The Obama administration has declined so far to release detailed records of purchases under the program being compiled by the Transportation Department, listing every clunker deal requesting rebates. The Associated Press requested the data July 31.

Even the Top 10 list of mostly smaller, fuel-efficient cars that LaHood has cited as evidence of the program's success is being questioned. A different Top 10 sales list produced by Edmunds.com, an auto consumer Web site, from dealer sales data shows fewer small cars and more large vehicles like trucks and utility vehicles make up the best sellers.

So much for transperancy. So much for "green". If you bought a car using MY money, then I guess you are welcome.

On personal note, this really pisses me off as I used my re-enlistment bonus as a downpayment on a car last year. If I had waited, I would have zero car payment. So, this legislation pisses me of in terms of real world consequences for myself, as well as a conflict with my ideaology as to what government is supposed to do.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

They said the program -- which gives consumers cash to swap aging gas-guzzlers for new, more fuel efficient models -- had pulled spending away from other sectors.

Which shows that most people that used the C4C program have most likely bitten off more than they will be able to chew in a month or few.
The lessons taught about over extending the household income with credit in the past 2 or 3 years sure didn't get absorbed to well.

Just in my little area,the greatest % of people that traded are the ones that will be cutting corners for the retail sales of the years end.Like Halloween,Thanks Giving and Xmas.
The detriments of negative trickle down affects of this program have yet to be realized by most.

[Max]

Lets not forget that after cash for clunkers ends (if it ever does) it will make car sales fall flat. People get used to major discounts. Look what the zero interest did after those deals ran out, sales fell flat because people get so used to great deals.

[right$pecial]

Lets not forget that after cash for clunkers ends (if it ever does) it will make car sales fall flat. People get used to major discounts. Look what the zero interest did after those deals ran out, sales fell flat because people get so used to great deals.

Exactly, they will be hurting bad in the next quarter. Anyone who was thinking about buying a new car and had enough money to do so would have been stupid not to get in while the getting was good.

[Jeb]

I got another letter from Obamamotors begging me to take advantage of the great new planet saving vehicles and rid myself of my planet killing Silverado! I will not sacrafice the safety of my family for a few gallons of gas! Screw them! I dare any Honda or Volt to head on collide with me anytime!:p

[right$pecial]

I got another letter from Obamamotors begging me to take advantage of the great new planet saving vehicles and rid myself of my planet killing Silverado! I will not sacrafice the safety of my family for a few gallons of gas! Screw them! I dare any Honda or Volt to head on collide with me anytime!:p

I'm considering keeping my 91 Mustang GT simply to spite them all. Of course I should probably sell it to finance the one class I need for my bachelor's degree, but spite is always fulfilling.

[synseer]

I'm considering keeping my 91 Mustang GT simply to spite them all. Of course I should probably sell it to finance the one class I need for my bachelor's degree, but spite is always fulfilling.

I'm doing that....keeping my big, fuel-inefficient truck just for spite. Dealers already been calling me begging me to trade in my truck for something newer. Screw them!

[Max]

I just talked on the phone with a friend that has been selling cars at carmax for several years. Seems the cash for klunkers has cost them 25% during a usually busy time with people getting back to school cars. Seems a parent with an old car can get a brand new small car cheaper then even a two or three year old car the same model. Another action reaction result. Every time they feed one group they starve others.

[Remphoto]

Went to an Audi dealer today to test drive a Q5 (really nice, btw). They told me that people are buying more low-end luxury cars because the C4C has a $45,000 cap. Their Porsche dealership is SOL.:) I am surprised that BHO did not set the cap even lower so the program only helps the "little guy". But then he likes the "rich" spending their money for stimulus purposes, I suppose.

They also said one of the big Audi dealers in Columbus has its back parking lot loaded with traded in clunkers. They are not going to disable these cars until receiving government checks, which have been slow in coming. If they don't get the money shortly, customers trading them in signed an agreement requiring them to return their new cars and take back their clunkers. Wonder how that will apply if government is running healthcare -- have to have your gallbladder sewn back in if the government screws up and doesn't pay the provider as promised? :D

[Jeb]

Still see big problems for Obamamotors! They will never see my money after 2 decades of loyalty is gone!

[Remphoto]

Still see big problems for Obamamotors! They will never see my money after 2 decades of loyalty is gone!

Right you are, Jeb. Their products have gotten better, but still do not equal the best of the rest of the world. And the fact they are now government/union controlled is a big turnoff to many.

As relates product freshness and competitiveness, my wife and I have begun the process of replacing our going off-lease BMW X3. We want another small AWD SUV with relatively good gas mileage and bad weather traction. There are some really fine small SUV's out there, but unfortunately, the best of them according to most testing sources are "foreign": Honda CRV, Acura RDX, Audi Q5, Toyota Venza, Subaru Forester, Lexus RX, etc. The domestics offering in this class are tired and weak -- Ford Escape, Chevy Equinox, small Jeeps, etc. I don't see much future for Obamamotors (or Fiat-Chrysler either).

[right$pecial]

Yep, my roommate, whom I have mentioned before, is already bitching that their sales quota is half what it was during the initial cash for clunkers campaign. Can you say artificial remedy?

[MYCAR47562]

im not doing it out of spite but i still have my 2 vechile
s that get under 10 miles a gallon

[Motive]

I'm doing that....keeping my big, fuel-inefficient truck just for spite. Dealers already been calling me begging me to trade in my truck for something newer. Screw them!


The only thing I'd trade my SuperDuty in for, would be another SuperDuty.

[Jeb]

I need more HP not less!

[MYCAR47562]

Go Get A New Vet

[synseer]

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/varv08022009a20090801041733.jpg

[MYCAR47562]

i like the c-notes