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The G
11-17-2009, 06:17 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2009/11/16/news/companies/gm_results/index.htm


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- General Motors said better results will allow it to start repaying government loans sooner than expected, although the company continued to lose money in its first quarter since emerging from bankruptcy.

The automaker said Monday it anticipates paying $1 billion to the U.S. Treasury in December, along with $192 million to the Canadian and Ontario governments.

GM received $6.7 billion in loans from the U.S. Treasury as part of its bankruptcy proceedings, along with help from Canada and Ontario. But this is only a fraction of the $50 billion in help GM received from U.S. taxpayers since the end of 2008.

The U.S. government now owns a majority stake in GM, and it is not clear that taxpayers will ever recover much of that investment.

Despite a recent upturn in auto sales, GM continues to struggle. The company said it lost $1.2 billion between its emergence from bankruptcy on July 10 and the end of the third quarter on Sept. 30.

By way of comparison, two of GM's top rivals -- Ford Motor (F, Fortune 500) and Toyota Motor (TM) -- reported unexpected quarterly profits during the third quarter.
0:00 /1:12GM to return bailout money

Still, GM's third-quarter loss was smaller than the $2.5 billion the company lost from continuing operations in the third quarter of 2008. But comparisons to last year are difficult since much of what was GM a year ago was shed during the bankruptcy process.

GM president and chief executive officer Fritz Henderson told reporters Monday morning that the results represented "some signs of progress, some signs of stability," but that ultimately they were "not satisfactory."

The company's core North American operations lost $651 million on an operating basis between its emergence from bankruptcy and the end of the quarter. That's far lower than the $2.1 billion in losses that GM originally expected for North America during the quarter when it filed for bankruptcy.

Outside of the U.S., GM's European operations lost $437 million in the period. But GM made $429 million in the Asia Pacific region, and another $245 elsewhere around the world.

GM said third quarter revenue from global auto sales plunged 25% compared to a year earlier, as sales during the first nine days of the period at the old GM along with the remaining days of the quarter at the new post-bankruptcy GM came to about $28 billion.

As sharp a decline as that was, sales were helped by the government's popular Cash for Clunkers program, which boosted demand for four weeks in late July and August. GM said revenue from auto sales in the third quarter were up $4.9 billion, or 21%, from the second quarter.

GM also said that it lost $14.5 billion in the second quarter. The company never disclosed those results until now since GM was in bankruptcy during the second quarter.
Could pay back loans by next June

Henderson said that GM may speed up its plans to pay back the government though, and that it could be done repaying its debt by June of 2010.

The money for the first payment will come from funds the government gave GM to fund its operations through the bankruptcy process. GM now plans to pay back the $6.7 billion in U.S. government loans over a period of two years.

Henderson added that GM, which is now a privately held company, hopes to sell stock to the public again during the second half of 2010. He said, however, that the timing of such an offering will depend on the state of the stock market as well the company's and industry's performance

All four shareholder groups - the U.S. and Canadian governments as well as the United Auto Workers union and the creditors who got stock in return for their GM debt during the bankruptcy process - want to start selling shares as soon as possible in order to generate a return on their investment.

The General Accountability Office recently said it is unlikely that taxpayers will ever recoup all the money it invested in GM, a statement Henderson said he understood.

"It's my mission to disprove the GAO," he said. "In the end it's a question of your outlook on the stock. The value of the stock is driven by how management performs."

The company said it expects industry sales to be down in the fourth quarter from third quarter levels, but that demand should improve in 2010.

Henderson said that he's confident GM will be able to be to break even if U.S. industrywide sales are at a 10 million annual level, and that GM's current forecast is for 2010 sales of between 11 million and 12 million.

Despite the quarterly loss, the company reported cash flow of $3.3 billion since emerging from bankruptcy, a stark difference from how GM burned through cash for most quarters over the past five years.

The increased cash flow left GM with $42.6 billion cash on hand at the end of the quarter, although the company said it will have to use some of that cash in the fourth quarter to repay government loans, make an additional $1 billion in restructuring payments and pay a $2.8 billion settlement related to the end of the bankruptcy at Delphi, its former parts supplier. To top of page
First Published: November 16, 2009: 7:28 AM ET

Remphoto
11-17-2009, 06:46 PM
Wow, great news -- GM lost money, not just as much as they thought they would? Now there is some Government-style accounting.

And "it is not clear that taxpayers will ever recover much of that investment." Good news indeed.

And, "sales were helped by the government's popular Cash for Clunkers program". Isn't that taking money from one Government pocket and putting it into another pocket?

GM better make more money after stiffing its shareholders, suppliers and many others by going through bankruptcy. Its debt load is now lower because the debt burden has been written off. Ironically, Ford which did the right thing, still has its debt load and this burden continues to drag it down compared to Ford's bankrupt brethren.

The G
11-17-2009, 06:50 PM
Wow, great news -- GM lost money, not just as much as they thought they would? Now there is some Government-style accounting.

And "it is not clear that taxpayers will ever recover much of that investment." Good news indeed.

And, "sales were helped by the government's popular Cash for Clunkers program". Isn't that taking money from one Government pocket and putting it into another pocket?

GM better make more money after stiffing its shareholders, suppliers and many others by going through bankruptcy. Its debt load is now lower because the debt burden has been written off. Ironically, Ford which did the right thing, still has its debt load and this burden continues to drag it down compared to Ford's bankrupt brethren.

Don't be a hatter they are going to pay back the money.

Remphoto
11-17-2009, 07:06 PM
Don't be a hatter they are going to pay back the money.

"What's a hatter?" Oh, a "hater"? Your typing has gotten as bad as mine in your absence.:) TT might show up and start yelling at you about your spelling.:)

I'm not hating, just trying to put an honest face on what is being spun as good news. This automaker turkey should have been left to die a natural death rather than propped up with government (our) money, swinging in the wind under government control. And if any money gets paid back it will be to the unions, not the taxpayers.

The G
11-17-2009, 07:31 PM
"What's a hatter?" Oh, a "hater"? Your typing has gotten as bad as mine in your absence.:) TT might show up and start yelling at you about your spelling.:)

I'm not hating, just trying to put an honest face on what is being spun as good news. This automaker turkey should have been left to die a natural death rather than propped up with government (our) money, swinging in the wind under government control. And if any money gets paid back it will be to the unions, not the taxpayers.
We should have done the same to you bankers :rofl:

Remphoto
11-17-2009, 07:37 PM
We should have done the same to you bankers :rofl:

No objection here -- wipe out those bad actors. Just leave alone those of us who did the right thing. Instead we are getting our FDIC assessments jacked through the roof to pay for those sorry sob's. And we're having to implement all kinds of new consumer protection regs to protect stupid people from themselves. :)

The G
11-17-2009, 07:45 PM
I would have liked to more regs on the bank for these loans, but doing nothing would have put this economy even further in the hole. Live and learn.

Max
11-17-2009, 09:46 PM
GM to date is into the taxpayers pocket for almost 80 billion total. The amount they claim they need to repay is 6.7 billion. At some point the US taxpayer is out 73 billion to start with and a company that lost 1.2 billion last quarter to announce it plans to start paying back is a laugh.

gtrman66
11-17-2009, 09:57 PM
Hey G lend me $1000 and I'll promise that sometime in the future I'll pay you back all $20 of it :rofl

The G
11-17-2009, 11:20 PM
Hey G lend me $1000 and I'll promise that sometime in the future I'll pay you back all $20 of it :rofl

I would but you would still find something to bitch about. :)

MYCAR47562
11-18-2009, 07:59 AM
g you give me a 1000 bucks and i promise ill go away so you don't have to hear my bitching

Max
11-18-2009, 08:46 AM
I do hope we all know the only reason GM announced this payback for about 10% of what it owes the taxpayer. GM wants to spend billions of the taxpayers dollars on Opel right now. That's right GM only announced this payback so it would clear the road for it to spend taxdollars on it's Opel division in Europe. IMHO it is a desperation move on GM's part. They have no chance of ever paying back the taxpayer and they only have a 50/50 chance of even surviving the next 5 years IMHO.

Remphoto
11-18-2009, 09:03 AM
Europeans are upset GM changed mind on Opel sale. They don't want tied to the GM turkey either.

Motive
11-18-2009, 09:06 AM
Taxpayer funded bailouts suck, I don't care who's gettin it..the taxpayer always gets stiffed.

TaxmanHog
04-21-2010, 11:01 PM
By KEN THOMAS and TOM KRISHER (AP)

WASHINGTON — Fallen giant General Motors Co. accelerated toward recovery Wednesday, announcing the repayment of $8.1 billion in U.S. and Canadian government loans five years ahead of schedule...................


Gas in the tank: GM repays $8.1B in gov't loans (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hij2hVGuCY0y8eoe3MwKGnw7WW_QD9F7OOEG1)

Remphoto
04-21-2010, 11:08 PM
By KEN THOMAS and TOM KRISHER (AP)

WASHINGTON — Fallen giant General Motors Co. accelerated toward recovery Wednesday, announcing the repayment of $8.1 billion in U.S. and Canadian government loans five years ahead of schedule...................


Gas in the tank: GM repays $8.1B in gov't loans (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hij2hVGuCY0y8eoe3MwKGnw7WW_QD9F7OOEG1)

I like how they make it sound that they have "paid in full" the government money. In reality they only made the first payment (albeit earlier than scheduled). Now they are wasting taxpayer money by advertising this fact via TV commercials featuring its less-than-telegenic Chairman Whiteacre. Lee Iacocca he ain't.

TaxmanHog
04-21-2010, 11:14 PM
Yes, it's a lot of fluff, if they are not actually climbing out of the mire, then they are making it look good to bamboozle congress & the prez into more special breaks

Remphoto
04-21-2010, 11:44 PM
As g said at the beginning of this thread, GM will pay back it's debt. With the unions set to benefit from that event I'm sure that will be arranged, even with smoke and mirrors.

cajun
04-22-2010, 05:33 AM
I also heard they had a 7or8 billion dollar retirement payment coming up real soon.

MYCAR47562
04-22-2010, 08:13 AM
I also heard they had a 7or8 billion dollar retirement payment coming up real soon.

it's 50 billion, and funny how now that the union holds the majority stake of non government money they start cutting health benifits.

Freethinker
04-23-2010, 09:48 AM
Can I still get my oil changed at the White House?

I figure I just drive up to the gate, let them know I'm there for my Government Motors Oil Change and a free Obama Health Care screening, and I can get it done in one afternoon. Right?

Remphoto
04-23-2010, 06:10 PM
Buying a GM is a vote for Obama and the UAW. Think about it.

Remphoto
04-23-2010, 09:56 PM
Well, old GM got caught with their "misrepresentations" (i.e., Lies) about paying in full. Who the heck do they think they are kidding?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/23/gm-hot-water-ftc-truth-advertising/