Senate report: Bin Laden was ‘within our grasp’

[The G]

updated 10:15 a.m. ET, Sun., Nov . 29, 2009

WASHINGTON - Osama bin Laden was unquestionably within reach of U.S. troops in the mountains of Tora Bora when American military leaders made the crucial and costly decision not to pursue the terrorist leader with massive force, a Senate report says.

The report asserts that the failure to kill or capture bin Laden at his most vulnerable in December 2001 has had lasting consequences beyond the fate of one man. Bin Laden's escape laid the foundation for today's reinvigorated Afghan insurgency and inflamed the internal strife now endangering Pakistan, it says.

Staff members for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Democratic majority prepared the report at the request of the chairman, Sen. John Kerry, as President Barack Obama prepares to boost U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

The Massachusetts senator and 2004 Democratic presidential candidate has long argued the Bush administration missed a chance to get the al-Qaida leader and top deputies when they were holed up in the forbidding mountainous area of eastern Afghanistan only three months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Aimed at foes of surge?
Although limited to a review of military operations eight years old, the report could also be read as a cautionary note for those resisting an increased troop presence there now.

More pointedly, it seeks to affix a measure of blame for the state of the war today on military leaders under former president George W. Bush, specifically Donald H. Rumsfeld as defense secretary and his top military commander, Tommy Franks.


"Removing the al-Qaida leader from the battlefield eight years ago would not have eliminated the worldwide extremist threat," the report says. "But the decisions that opened the door for his escape to Pakistan allowed bin Laden to emerge as a potent symbolic figure who continues to attract a steady flow of money and inspire fanatics worldwide. The failure to finish the job represents a lost opportunity that forever altered the course of the conflict in Afghanistan and the future of international terrorism."

The report states categorically that bin Laden was hiding in Tora Bora when the U.S. had the means to mount a rapid assault with several thousand troops at least. It says that a review of existing literature, unclassified government records and interviews with central participants "removes any lingering doubts and makes it clear that Osama bin Laden was within our grasp at Tora Bora."

Fewer than 100 U.S. commandos
On or about Dec. 16, 2001, bin Laden and bodyguards "walked unmolested out of Tora Bora and disappeared into Pakistan's unregulated tribal area," where he is still believed to be based, the report says.



Instead of a massive attack, fewer than 100 U.S. commandos, working with Afghan militias, tried to capitalize on air strikes and track down their prey.

"The vast array of American military power, from sniper teams to the most mobile divisions of the Marine Corps and the Army, was kept on the sidelines," the report said.

At the time, Rumsfeld expressed concern that a large U.S. troop presence might fuel a backlash and he and some others said the evidence was not conclusive about bin Laden's location.

[coolbreeze]

updated 10:15 a.m. ET, Sun., Nov . 29, 2009

WASHINGTON - Osama bin Laden was unquestionably within reach of U.S. troops in the mountains of Tora Bora when American military leaders made the crucial and costly decision not to pursue the terrorist leader with massive force, a Senate report says.

The report asserts that the failure to kill or capture bin Laden at his most vulnerable in December 2001 has had lasting consequences beyond the fate of one man. Bin Laden's escape laid the foundation for today's reinvigorated Afghan insurgency and inflamed the internal strife now endangering Pakistan, it says.

Staff members for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Democratic majority prepared the report at the request of the chairman, Sen. John Kerry, as President Barack Obama prepares to boost U.S. troops in Afghanistan.
Story continues below ↓advertisement | your ad here

The Massachusetts senator and 2004 Democratic presidential candidate has long argued the Bush administration missed a chance to get the al-Qaida leader and top deputies when they were holed up in the forbidding mountainous area of eastern Afghanistan only three months after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Aimed at foes of surge?
Although limited to a review of military operations eight years old, the report could also be read as a cautionary note for those resisting an increased troop presence there now.

More pointedly, it seeks to affix a measure of blame for the state of the war today on military leaders under former president George W. Bush, specifically Donald H. Rumsfeld as defense secretary and his top military commander, Tommy Franks.


"Removing the al-Qaida leader from the battlefield eight years ago would not have eliminated the worldwide extremist threat," the report says. "But the decisions that opened the door for his escape to Pakistan allowed bin Laden to emerge as a potent symbolic figure who continues to attract a steady flow of money and inspire fanatics worldwide. The failure to finish the job represents a lost opportunity that forever altered the course of the conflict in Afghanistan and the future of international terrorism."

The report states categorically that bin Laden was hiding in Tora Bora when the U.S. had the means to mount a rapid assault with several thousand troops at least. It says that a review of existing literature, unclassified government records and interviews with central participants "removes any lingering doubts and makes it clear that Osama bin Laden was within our grasp at Tora Bora."

Fewer than 100 U.S. commandos
On or about Dec. 16, 2001, bin Laden and bodyguards "walked unmolested out of Tora Bora and disappeared into Pakistan's unregulated tribal area," where he is still believed to be based, the report says.



Instead of a massive attack, fewer than 100 U.S. commandos, working with Afghan militias, tried to capitalize on air strikes and track down their prey.

"The vast array of American military power, from sniper teams to the most mobile divisions of the Marine Corps and the Army, was kept on the sidelines," the report said.

At the time, Rumsfeld expressed concern that a large U.S. troop presence might fuel a backlash and he and some others said the evidence was not conclusive about bin Laden's location.

Maybe you were in a submarine back then when it was widely publicized for weeks we blew it on getting Osama when it happened.

Another sad attempt of distraction by ignorant liberals re-blaming bush.

[Remphoto]

For God's sake, G, consider the source of that document. Democrats on Foreign relations committee? John Kerry? And you omitted the source of that article which you clipped and pasted -- media matters? Huffington Post? MSNBC?

And if you want to talk about letting Bin Laden get away, what about Clinton not taking him when he was offered?

[coolbreeze]

For God's sake, G, consider the source of that document. Democrats on Foreign relations committee? John Kerry? And you omitted the source of that article which you clipped and pasted -- media matters? Huffington Post? MSNBC?

And if you want to talk about letting Bin Laden get away, what about Clinton not taking him when he was offered?

Rem, you're stooping to G's blame game :eek:. He knows Clinton blew it. You can't rationalize with G. Maybe one day. But I doubt it. :)

[The G]

Its called dropping the ball.

[The G]

Maybe you were in a submarine back then when it was widely publicized for weeks we blew it on getting Osama when it happened.

Another sad attempt of distraction by ignorant liberals re-blaming bush.

I think this just came out today, please note the date.

[Remphoto]

Its called dropping the ball.

No, its called making up and misusing facts to politicize a situation and divert attention. And it is despicable.

[coolbreeze]

No, its called making up and misusing facts to politicize a situation and divert attention. And it is despicable.

But not at all surprising.

[Danv]

This fight could go round and round. If you say GWB could of had him and let him go they point to Clinton and what he did. Once you bring up Clinton they point to Bush and we eventually get back to Reagan and the fact that we armed them to begin with. The biggest culprit in us not getting Bin Laden was the culture that grew up around the law enforcement communities and the inteligance agency's. If anyone has read a book called " The Looming Tower " it does a great job of laying out the timeline of events and how we got to 9/11. Many in the goverment felt no immediate danger from Bin Laden and considered them no threat. The CIA did not want to risk there intelligence with the FBI and the FBI did not like the CIA and diod not trust them. All the signs were there we just did not want to see it. Reagan made mistakes, Bush made mistakes, Clinton made mistakes, GWB made mistakes, and now Obama has and will make mistakes. As far as politicizing this event it is done on both sides. The left likes to point to that finding, and the right goes back to Clinton. One is called politicizing, the other is called pointing out facts.

[The G]

It started under Reagan.

If anyone has anything further back than him PLEASE post a link.

[Danv]

You can say it started with him but to really blame him is hard. We were choosing what we thought to be the lesser of two evils. We chose wrong. It reminds me of the scene in the Dark knight when Alfred tells bruce that they chose a man(the joker) they didnt fully understand and that was the consequence. We didnt fully understand the side we were taking. Russia may have been our enemy but played but the same rules and adhered to a certain international standard when it came to other nations. The islamic extremist do not.

[coolbreeze]

It started under Reagan.

If anyone has anything further back than him PLEASE post a link.

Carter gave strength to Islamic extremists when he betrayed Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran. Before that betrayal Iran was a strong US allie. After the betrayal the Islamic extremists have grown stronger.

Here's an interesting interview for you G.

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/brz.htm

On another topic, here's Carter's "Cap and Trade" speech if you can stomach to view it. I made it through about 2 minutes. We had to act quickly back then too. The libs have this green/energy agenda on a loop.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-tPePpMxJaA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-tPePpMxJaA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[The G]

Carter gave strength to Islamic extremists when he betrayed Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran. Before that betrayal Iran was a strong US allie. After the betrayal the Islamic extremists have grown stronger.

Here's an interesting interview for you G.

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/interviews/brz.htm



Nice try but not even close.

This is where it started.

http://whitehouser.com/politics/ronald-reagan-perfect-president-real-or-imagined-perspective-matters/

[coolbreeze]

Nice try but not even close.

This is where it started.

http://whitehouser.com/politics/ronald-reagan-perfect-president-real-or-imagined-perspective-matters/

You mean dirty liberal websites? That one would certainly qualify as to "where it started." I never thought I would live to see actual trash transformed into a website. Now I've seen it twice. flag@whitehouse.gov, and whitehouser.com

G, c'mon. you can to do better then that.

[Jeb]

Do a little research and you will find that Osama is a rich Saudi that was created by Mohammed and the ideaolgy of Islam! But he got his flame on for America during the Clinton years and made his decision to attach us when Clinton tucked his tail and ran after Blackhawk Down! In fact it was his skills that taught the technique to the black muslims that knocked the tail rutter out of the helicopter! We know this from Osamas on words! He said our weak underbelly was exposed and he knew then we did not have the stomach to handle the bodies of boys on the news! He watch CNN and knew he could count on them for the gory details! He was right about that! PC is the ultimate enemy of America and all those that subscribe to it!

[The G]

Wrong you better check your history...

[The G]

You mean dirty liberal websites? That one would certainly qualify as to "where it started." I never thought I would live to see actual trash transformed into a website. Now I've seen it twice. flag@whitehouse.gov, and whitehouser.com

G, c'mon. you can to do better then that.

Facts are facts

[coolbreeze]

Facts are facts

I rest my case!

[The G]

You should have gave up earlier and saved me a whole bunch of typing.

[Danv]

Jeb isnt entirely wrong. Bin Laden was against American intervention from the beginning. He did not want the royal family to except our help and is against us having troops there to this day. Clinton being in office is just who happened to be in at the time. Any president would have offered help to protect our interest. What convinced Bin Laden and others he could win was a shift in general of the American population that didnt want to see troops being killed and dragged thru the streets. While i wouldnt agree with how Jeb framed his arguement, he is not entirely wrong.

[The G]

You mean dirty liberal websites? That one would certainly qualify as to "where it started." I never thought I would live to see actual trash transformed into a website. Now I've seen it twice. flag@whitehouse.gov, and whitehouser.com

G, c'mon. you can to do better then that.

Regardless where it comes the truth is the truth.

[Remphoto]

Regardless where it comes the truth is the truth.

Huh? Garbage in Equals garbage out. No way you can make truth when you start with a falicity. Think about it.

[The G]

Here are a few more.

http://www.google.com/search?q=reagan+bin+laden&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[The G]

Heres a good read for those who forgot history.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAreagan.htm

[Remphoto]

Garbage in garbage out (GIGO)n G. Remember that.

[The G]

Garbage in garbage out (GIGO)n G. Remember that.

I think it a very good biography and a lot of this things he did put us where we are today.

[The G]

This one is for the physical Conservatives.

In the 1930s and 40s Reagan had been a loyal supporter of the Democratic Party. However, he switched to the Republican Party after the war and supported Dwight Eisenhower (1952 and 1956) and Richard Nixon (1960). In 1964 that Reagan became a national political figure. This was as a result of a televised speech in support of Barry Goldwater. It did not help Goldwater win the election (he was seen by most people in America as a dangerous, right-wing extremist). However, it did convince members of the Californian business community that here was a man with the charm to sell right-wing extremism. Reagan was approached about becoming the Republican Party candidate as Governor of California. With the help of a smear campaign against Pat Brown and promises of tax cuts he won an easy victory.


As governor Reagan quickly established himself as one of the country's leading conservative political figures. This included dramatic budget cuts and a hiring freeze for state agencies. He also put up student fees and when they complained he sent state troopers to deal with their protest meetings.

Re-elected with 52 per cent of the vote in 1970, Reagan introduced a series of welfare reforms during his second term in office. This included tightening eligibility requirements for welfare aid and requiring the able to seek work rather than receiving benefits. However, the tax cuts never came, in fact, he presided over the largest tax increase any state had ever demanded in American history.

[The G]

Another good read about the hostages and IRAN, please note IRAN !!!

During the campaign Ronald Reagan was informed that Jimmy Carter was attempting to negotiate a deal with Iran to get the American hostages released. This was disastrous news for the Reagan campaign. If Carter got the hostages out before the election, the public perception of the man might change and he might be elected for a second-term. As Deaver later told the New York Times: "One of the things we had concluded early on was that a Reagan victory would be nearly impossible if the hostages were released before the election... There is no doubt in my mind that the euphoria of a hostage release would have rolled over the land like a tidal wave. Carter would have been a hero, and many of the complaints against him forgotten. He would have won."

According to Barbara Honegger, a researcher and policy analyst with the 1980 Reagan/Bush campaign, William J. Casey and other representatives of the Reagan presidential campaign made a deal at two sets of meetings in July and August at the Ritz Hotel in Madrid with Iranians to delay the release of Americans held hostage in Iran until after the November 1980 presidential elections. Reagan’s aides promised that they would get a better deal if they waited until Carter was defeated.

On 22nd September, 1980, Iraq invaded Iran. The Iranian government was now in desperate need of spare parts and equipment for its armed forces. Jimmy Carter proposed that the US would be willing to hand over supplies in return for the hostages.

Once again, the Central Intelligence Agency leaked this information to Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush. This attempted deal was also passed to the media. On 11th October, the Washington Post reported rumors of a “secret deal that would see the hostages released in exchange for the American made military spare parts Iran needs to continue its fight against Iraq”.

A couple of days before the election Barry Goldwater was reported as saying that he had information that “two air force C-5 transports were being loaded with spare parts for Iran”. This was not true. However, this publicity had made it impossible for Carter to do a deal. Ronald Reagan on the other hand, had promised the Iranian government that he would arrange for them to get all the arms they needed in exchange for the hostages.

In the election Reagan easily defeated Jimmy Carter by 44 million votes to 35 million. The Republican Party also won control of the Senate for the first time in 26 years. According to Mansur Rafizadeh, the former U.S. station chief of SAVAK, the Iranian secret police, CIA agents had persuaded Khomeini not to release the American hostages until Reagan was sworn in. In fact, they were released twenty minutes after his inaugural address.

[The G]

Here we are now selling arms and CHEMICALS to SADDAM HUSSIEM, where have we heard about SADDUAM using chemical on his own people ?????

Dondal Rumsfeld where have I heard this name before ????

In 1981 Reagan sent Donald Rumsfeld, his Middle East envoy, to Iraq. This resulted in Reagan selling Saddam Hussein "dual-use" items, including helicopters and chemicals. He also armed the Mojahedin in Afghanistan that eventually evolved into the Taliban.

[Remphoto]

Anyone can cut and paste and regurgitate leftwing dribble. Have you know ideas of your own? (Grin)

[The G]

Delivering arms to Iran from Israel ????

That didn't worked out real well now didn't it ?

Reagan appointed William J. Casey as director of the Central Intelligence Agency. In this position he was able to arrange the delivery of arms to Iran. These were delivered via Israel. By the end of 1982 all Regan’s promises to Iran had been made. With the deal completed, Iran was free to resort to acts of terrorism against the United States. In 1983, Iranian-backed terrorists blew up 241 marines in the CIA Middle-East headquarters.

[MYCAR47562]

However, the tax cuts never came, in fact, he presided over the largest tax increase any state had ever demanded in American history.
EXPLAIN.

AND WHERE ARE THE FILES SHOWING REAGON TALKING TO IRAN?

[coolbreeze]

Anyone can cut and paste and regurgitate leftwing dribble. Have you know ideas of your own? (Grin)


:rofl

Rem, it's G. C'mon. Ideas of his own? :rofl:rofl:rofl

[The G]

what I post is true, if its wong and not history please let me know.

[MYCAR47562]

....lol Right

[Remphoto]

I'm let you know now, considering you sources it is wrong and not accurate history.

[coolbreeze]

I'm let you know now, considering you sources it is wrong and not accurate history.

It is simply a fabrication of history, to change the future. Fortunately, the fools who fall for the tactic are in the minority.

[Jeb]

G, you are wrong! As a Firearms expert and collector, I have studied the history of AK 47/74 and can tell you the Mujahadin have been making these weapons themselves forever! They actually have the ability to fabricate weapons in the caves! In fact, you can catch the process on the Discovery Channel!:gun::rofl

[The G]

This one is for the physical Conservatives.

In the 1930s and 40s Reagan had been a loyal supporter of the Democratic Party. However, he switched to the Republican Party after the war and supported Dwight Eisenhower (1952 and 1956) and Richard Nixon (1960). In 1964 that Reagan became a national political figure. This was as a result of a televised speech in support of Barry Goldwater. It did not help Goldwater win the election (he was seen by most people in America as a dangerous, right-wing extremist). However, it did convince members of the Californian business community that here was a man with the charm to sell right-wing extremism. Reagan was approached about becoming the Republican Party candidate as Governor of California. With the help of a smear campaign against Pat Brown and promises of tax cuts he won an easy victory.



As governor Reagan quickly established himself as one of the country's leading conservative political figures. This included dramatic budget cuts and a hiring freeze for state agencies. He also put up student fees and when they complained he sent state troopers to deal with their protest meetings.

Re-elected with 52 per cent of the vote in 1970, Reagan introduced a series of welfare reforms during his second term in office. This included tightening eligibility requirements for welfare aid and requiring the able to seek work rather than receiving benefits. However, the tax cuts never came, in fact, he presided over the largest tax increase any state had ever demanded in American history.


I'm sure these are of those left wing sites, :) but they also says Ronnie raised taxes while being the Gov.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/5/704949/-Reagan-raised-taxes,-says-Governor-Brewer

http://californiascapitol.com/blog/?p=259

[The G]

Another good read about the hostages and IRAN, please note IRAN !!!

During the campaign Ronald Reagan was informed that Jimmy Carter was attempting to negotiate a deal with Iran to get the American hostages released. This was disastrous news for the Reagan campaign. If Carter got the hostages out before the election, the public perception of the man might change and he might be elected for a second-term. As Deaver later told the New York Times: "One of the things we had concluded early on was that a Reagan victory would be nearly impossible if the hostages were released before the election... There is no doubt in my mind that the euphoria of a hostage release would have rolled over the land like a tidal wave. Carter would have been a hero, and many of the complaints against him forgotten. He would have won."

According to Barbara Honegger, a researcher and policy analyst with the 1980 Reagan/Bush campaign, William J. Casey and other representatives of the Reagan presidential campaign made a deal at two sets of meetings in July and August at the Ritz Hotel in Madrid with Iranians to delay the release of Americans held hostage in Iran until after the November 1980 presidential elections. Reagan’s aides promised that they would get a better deal if they waited until Carter was defeated.

On 22nd September, 1980, Iraq invaded Iran. The Iranian government was now in desperate need of spare parts and equipment for its armed forces. Jimmy Carter proposed that the US would be willing to hand over supplies in return for the hostages.

Once again, the Central Intelligence Agency leaked this information to Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush. This attempted deal was also passed to the media. On 11th October, the Washington Post reported rumors of a “secret deal that would see the hostages released in exchange for the American made military spare parts Iran needs to continue its fight against Iraq”.

A couple of days before the election Barry Goldwater was reported as saying that he had information that “two air force C-5 transports were being loaded with spare parts for Iran”. This was not true. However, this publicity had made it impossible for Carter to do a deal. Ronald Reagan on the other hand, had promised the Iranian government that he would arrange for them to get all the arms they needed in exchange for the hostages.

In the election Reagan easily defeated Jimmy Carter by 44 million votes to 35 million. The Republican Party also won control of the Senate for the first time in 26 years. According to Mansur Rafizadeh, the former U.S. station chief of SAVAK, the Iranian secret police, CIA agents had persuaded Khomeini not to release the American hostages until Reagan was sworn in. In fact, they were released twenty minutes after his inaugural address.

This one was easy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

[The G]

G, you are wrong! As a Firearms expert and collector, I have studied the history of AK 47/74 and can tell you the Mujahadin have been making these weapons themselves forever! They actually have the ability to fabricate weapons in the caves! In fact, you can catch the process on the Discovery Channel!:gun::rofl

we gave them STINGERS..................... not AK-47

[The G]

Here we are now selling arms and CHEMICALS to SADDAM HUSSIEM, where have we heard about SADDUAM using chemical on his own people ?????

Dondal Rumsfeld where have I heard this name before ????

In 1981 Reagan sent Donald Rumsfeld, his Middle East envoy, to Iraq. This resulted in Reagan selling Saddam Hussein "dual-use" items, including helicopters and chemicals. He also armed the Mojahedin in Afghanistan that eventually evolved into the Taliban.


heres a few more tons of info out there...........

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/16093

http://www.photius.com/rogue_nations/rumsfeld_saddam_nyt_031223.html

[MYCAR47562]

This one was easy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Contra_affair

you should check you link g, make sure you reread it.

[Jeb]

Oh my god...not stingers!:eek: It was an RPG that knocked down our Blackhawks, so what's your point?

[The G]

The stinger missile where giving to the Mujahidin to shoot down Soviet helicopters during the afgan war with soviet union in the late 70's

The black hawks being shot down was in Mogadishu in 1993.

[Jeb]

Duh! Maybe I should break it down for ya! Weapons are the tools of war, whether a spear or stinger or a .50 cal, weapons do not make war, people do! It is the long War of Good Vs.Evil, and nothing will stop it but the Second coming and the final battle is fought. You happen to be on the side that loses!:rofl

[The G]

I see you MISSED my point :)

[Jeb]

I see you MISSED my point :)

I think you got my point! You are either with us or your with Mao, Marx, and CHavez!:gun:

[The G]

Thats a crock :)

[Jeb]

Thats a crock :)

You have to make your choice! You better turn before you Burn brother!:rofl

[The G]

You have to make your choice! You better turn before you Burn brother!:roflThats a crook too :)

[coolbreeze]

Thats a crook too

Now I see why G simply posts links of garbage, deception, and lies.

When he posts his own thoughts and opinions, all you get is a "crock." :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

[The G]

Now I see why G simply posts links of garbage, deception, and lies.

When he posts his own thoughts and opinions, all you get is a "crock." :rofl:rofl:rofl:roflim being pc so i don't piss off the right.:moon:

[coolbreeze]

im being pc so i don't piss off the right.:moon:

What a crock! :rofl

[Motive]

I do believe we were more concerned about the USSR gaining more influence at the time, than the Muslim extremists...we chose the lesser of two evils. I would be surprised if this were the first time in History that this had happened.

I believe we aided Saddam in the overthrow of Communism in Iraq....kind of Ironic, that we fought against Communism for so long..and for the most part won, to be headed that way ourselves.

[Jeb]

I do believe we were more concerned about the USSR gaining more influence at the time, than the Muslim extremists...we chose the lesser of two evils. I would be surprised if this were the first time in History that this had happened.

I believe we aided Saddam in the overthrow of Communism in Iraq....kind of Ironic, that we fought against Communism for so long..and for the most part won, to be headed that way ourselves.

Well said! The CCCP, the model that G and BHO would have us revert to, killed directly 30,000,000 Christians, Jews and what they deemed dissidents, indirectly through proxy wars they killed another 50,000,000! Red China did the same! The time that we help arm the Mujahadin was crucial as we placed the final nails in the coffin of one of the most oppressive regimes and systems the world has ever known. At the time the Democrat controlled congress defunded all the great freedom fighters from the Afhgans to the Contras...all because the left wing of the Democrat party worshipped Marxism! Their love affair with Communism has cost millions of lives and countless dreams, and President Reagan,(God rest his soul) did the right thing destroying that regime! To have G and BHO belittle his memory and the long hard fight to free so many makes me sick! Motive, you are so right, what we fought to defeat with so much blood spilled, now is embraced and pushed for by these leftist like BHO, Pelosi, Reid and Franks...it is almost like there are two Universes, and theirs is a Utopian pipe dream where good intentions,(however misguided) cost terrible human suffering and empower dispicable tyrants like Castro, Chevez, Stalin, Mussilini, Hitler and the list goes on!

[The G]

Well said! The CCCP, the model that G and BHO would have us revert to, killed directly 30,000,000 Christians, Jews and what they deemed dissidents, indirectly through proxy wars they killed another 50,000,000! Red China did the same! The time that we help arm the Mujahadin was crucial as we placed the final nails in the coffin of one of the most oppressive regimes and systems the world has ever known. At the time the Democrat controlled congress defunded all the great freedom fighters from the Afhgans to the Contras...all because the left wing of the Democrat party worshipped Marxism! Their love affair with Communism has cost millions of lives and countless dreams, and President Reagan,(God rest his soul) did the right thing destroying that regime! To have G and BHO belittle his memory and the long hard fight to free so many makes me sick! Motive, you are so right, what we fought to defeat with so much blood spilled, now is embraced and pushed for by these leftist like BHO, Pelosi, Reid and Franks...it is almost like there are two Universes, and theirs is a Utopian pipe dream where good intentions,(however misguided) cost terrible human suffering and empower dispicable tyrants like Castro, Chevez, Stalin, Mussilini, Hitler and the list goes on!

Its history

http://www.google.com/search?q=The+fall+of+USSR&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[MYCAR47562]

yep.... i think that's what they were saying also