Obama elected!

[Engels]

I've never been so proud to be an American citizen.

[Oriondk]

Yeah, we're all saved now. The Messiah has come.:p

[Engels]

No, we're not.

There's a lot to be done, not only by the incoming administration, but also by American people and businesses.

I'm quite certain Obama won't be a perfect President. He'll make mistakes like all the rest of them, and will make some appointments that don't quite live up to our expectations.

But you can all rest assured of the following: We won't be turned over to terrorists. The Government won't come around to collect your guns. Your taxes won't skyrocket. The medical system won't be taken over by the Government. Israel will not be turned into a smoking ruin.

With a little luck some things will get better: Most of us will see our Federal taxes decrease. Our active duty and reserve military people will not continue to spend one year out of every three deployed to Iraq. We'll come up with a sensible energy policy so we won't see another summer of $4.40/gallon gasoline.

Two observations:

I never thought John McCain was a bad man, or would have been a bad President. Eight years ago I would have very happily voted for him. My only real disappointments with him were related to the campaign: his selection of Sarah Palin was a disgrace; and he allowed, if not encouraged, some of his supporters to engage vicious and ugly rumor-mongering.

And lastly, maybe some of the people who read this board and the 1130 site ought to take a few days to consider what the election means in terms of the political attitudes and beliefs of a significant majority (for now..) of the rest of the citizens of the United States.

[vrodderD]

Barack Hussein Obama. The MSM will give him a pass on every screw up and attack anyone who complains (i.e. Joe the Plumber).

The $250k and up tax increase is now working down to the middle class 150k. By February, it will be down to 100k and after they tax our 401k's, even the "middle class" will be paying higher taxes by June.

[gtrman66]

Barack Hussein Obama. The MSM will give him a pass on every screw up and attack anyone who complains (i.e. Joe the Plumber).

The $250k and up tax increase is now working down to the middle class 150k. By February, it will be down to 100k and after they tax our 401k's, even the "middle class" will be paying higher taxes by June.

Bill Richardson already dropped it to $120k, so it's still on the way down. Another month or two and I'll be "rich" instead of middle class.

[The G]

This will be that same taxes that we paid during the Clinton years. Has everyone forgot that this was the best economy in the USA to date.. Oh ya he had a balance budget with help of the REP. It was nice for Bill to pay the bills and not leave a mess for our kids.


Can any Rep since Ronny say the same ? NOPE

[MYCAR47562]

ive never been so ashamed to be american as now its amazing how guliable everyone is. the say bush lied to them now they let some salesman talk his way in to office.



all you liberal democrats and independant out there who voted for obama,....


make sure you thank you local reporters and anchor people because with out them this election coulndt have been possible, having true journalism die as a result of the extreme obama backing i guess is just a small price to pay.

[MYCAR47562]

and i want to add one more thing im not bitter im scared this dude scares the hell out of me

[gtrman66]

We won't be turned over to terrorists.

Turned over? No. Do I think we will be attacked and we will not retaliate (like Clinton with the USS Cole and the first Trade Center attack)? Yes.

The Government won't come around to collect your guns.

Obama was being misleading when he denied that his handwriting had been on a document endorsing a state ban on the sale and possession of handguns in Illinois. Obama responded, "No, my writing wasn't on that particular questionnaire. As I said, I have never favored an all-out ban on handguns."
Actually, Obama's writing was on the 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods and background checks? Yes.
Obama's campaign said, "Sen. Obama didn't fill out these state Senate questionnaires--a staffer did--and there are several answers that didn't reflect his views then or now. He may have jotted some notes on the front page of the questionnaire, but some answers didn't reflect his views."
Source: FactCheck.org analysis of 2008 Philadelphia primary debate Apr 16, 2008


Your taxes won't skyrocket.

Nope. Not yet anyways. The guy sounded like an 18 year old with a new credit card. He made a lot of promises to spend, spend, spend. The math doesn’t add up. If he keeps 50% of them, I believe by his second year, we will see a massive tax increase on the middle class because that will be the only money left. The “rich” didn’t get that way by being stupid. Watch the move of US dollars off shore over the next 6 months to 1 year. You will be stunned and BO will act like he never saw it coming.

The medical system won't be taken over by the Government.

Maybe not. There is no way to force the proposed “cost savings” in the system back to the consumer. The requirements placed on the healthcare system will not drive the cost down, but up. Subsidizing those who cannot afford healthcare is only extending the welfare state of mind. Again, that will drive the tax increase of 2011.

Q: You favor universal coverage for everyone without exception?
A: That's correct. Part of the reason that you're confused about the candidates' differences is because the differences probably matter less than the commonalties. All of the major Democratic candidates are advocating some form of universal health care. The question is, how do we get there? My proposal says:
• We will set up a government program similar to the one that I utilize as a member of Congress, that anybody who wants to can buy into, that we will subsidize those who can't afford it.
• That we will pay for those subsidies by imposing a set of cost-saving measures that will actually improve quality at the same time that they lower costs.
• Using health IT, information technologies, not just for billing but for maintaining medical records, for communicating between doctors and nurses and pharmacists.
• To reduce errors and reduce bureaucracy.
• Managing the chronically ill.
Source: Huffington Post Mash-Up: 2007 Democratic on-line debate Sep 13, 2007


Israel will not be turned into a smoking ruin.

This one, we’ll just have to watch. I hope you are right.

Most of us will see our Federal taxes decrease.

Yep, for now. Wait until about 2011 and he will ask “every” American to do their part because of (fill in the blank) and pay a “little” more back to the system.

Our active duty and reserve military people will not continue to spend one year out of every three deployed to Iraq.

He’s all over the place on this one. Bill Clinton deployed troops with gusto on “peace keeping” missions. If he guts the military 25%, then less troops will spend more time overseas, not less. I’m betting the withdraw from Iraq will take longer than his first term.

We'll come up with a sensible energy policy so we won't see another summer of $4.40/gallon gasoline.

Bankrupting the coal industry will not drive down energy costs.

“So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can,” Obama said. “It's just that it will bankrupt them because they're going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that's being emitted.” CBS News Nov 2, 2008

… John McCain …his selection of Sarah Palin was a disgrace.

She has more experience than BO on all levels and she was only running for VP. I would have voted for her as Pres before BO. BO has no experience leading. None, zip, nada.

… and he allowed, if not encouraged, some of his supporters to engage vicious and ugly rumor-mongering. .

Are you sure you didn’t mean BO? JMC actually called people out at rallies and put a stop to the “rumor-mongering”. BO encouraged all kinds.

And lastly, maybe some of the people who read this board and the 1130 site ought to take a few days to consider what the election means in terms of the political attitudes and beliefs of a significant majority (for now..) of the rest of the citizens of the United States.

I wish us all well. Only 40% of Dems and 32% of Reps bothered to get off their couch and vote. I know, amazing turn out, but to me it’s disappointing that so many people didn’t vote. The “majority” you talk about are only the ones who bothered. It is our fault for allowing this to happen.

Remember, be careful for what you wish for, you just got it.

[MYCAR47562]

i truly hope he is the best president ever but im suspious till i believe he is

[Ghost]

i truly hope he is the best president ever but im suspious till i believe he is

Give it time guys, he hasn't even taken office yet. I would assume that you are the same one that 8 years ago said, "yippee, all of our problems are over, we got a hardcore Texan Republican in and now all of our problems are over". Were you one of those folks? Now, the GOP Presidential candidate even runs ads saying how bad the last years were.

[MYCAR47562]

8 Years Ago I Was A freshman In Highschool So Yea I Was Happy About Any President But I Do Believe Bush Did A Good Job The Last 2 Years Have Been There Worst Part And Guess What Changed, Congress Went Democrat

[Ghost]

8 Years Ago I Was A freshman In Highschool So Yea I Was Happy About Any President But I Do Believe Bush Did A Good Job The Last 2 Years Have Been There Worst Part And Guess What Changed, Congress Went Democrat

Surely, you don't believe that we got to where we are in a matter of 2 years. So what did the Bush administration do in the first 6 years that would have prevented it? De-Regulation? Nope, ENRON. Iraq? Nope, 10 billion per month and thousands of American lives. Infrastructure improvements thus creating jobs? Nope, infrastructure in worst condition ever, bridges collapsing etc etc. Privatize social security? Nope, Thank God, it would be gone. Reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Nope, total bust. I could go on if you want, but I would rather you tell me about the first 6 years.

[jacothedog]

i truly hope he is the best president ever but im suspious till i believe he is

That's an uplifiting statement, mycar. I'm the same way - I wasn't a big fan of his ideas but I hope he does more good than bad and I will support him. He will be our president and this is the best country in the world.

[MYCAR47562]

Surely, you don't believe that we got to where we are in a matter of 2 years. So what did the Bush administration do in the first 6 years that would have prevented it? De-Regulation? Nope, ENRON. Iraq? Nope, 10 billion per month and thousands of American lives. Infrastructure improvements thus creating jobs? Nope, infrastructure in worst condition ever, bridges collapsing etc etc. Privatize social security? Nope, Thank God, it would be gone. Reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac? Nope, total bust. I could go on if you want, but I would rather you tell me about the first 6 years.

im not saying he is without fault but as far as fannie mae mccain was calling for reform but people didnt want that and ill be honest with you this is the first election ive ever really paid much attention to i think that why i have such strong opinions

[MYCAR47562]

and i also believe your loving canidate could have stopped this tragedy 2 years ago yes 2 years is a long time it would of been maybe a third of the damage done if we could have figured something out

[Ghost]

im not saying he is without fault but as far as fannie mae mccain was calling for reform but people didnt want that and ill be honest with you this is the first election ive ever really paid much attention to i think that why i have such strong opinions

Damn, I was hoping you could educate me.

Well I must applaud you on paying attention to this election. Hopefully you voted. There is nothing wrong with strong opinions but strong opinions can't turn into hard-headedness, you gotta try to allow at least a small bit of objectivity, just my 2 cents. I look forward to many informative debates with you.

By the way, I will be a freshman in high school next year, I can't wait!!!!

[MYCAR47562]

Wow Your Young To Know This Much Thats Impressive.

I Do Allow Objectivity As Long As I Agree With It There Are Subjects I Can Agree With On Obama's Campaign As Far As Reform Of Goverment Spending But I Dont Agree With His Stance On Redistribution Of Wealth.

[Oriondk]

I'll give Obama credit for one thing, so far. He's a great speaker. His speach last night was very good. My problem is, I just don't trust him. He has absolutely no experience. What, in God's name has he ever really done, other than run a very effective campaign? He hasn't even served a full term in the U.S. Senate.
I truly hope he is a great president, and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
One thing that has really bothered me throughout this whole campaign is the press. The press just seems to have worshiped this guy from the start. My God, what ever happened to objective journalism? And coverage? At least in the local paper the coverage slanted from the start to the two main Democratic candidates. I had to look elsewhere for any coverage of what the Republicans were doing and saying.
Oh and btw, want to see what happens when you count on taxing the rich. Take a look at California's financial mess. The top 5% pay 69% of the individual taxes. The trouble is, when investments and business's go bad, that tax source dries up. We just completed a budget that was supposedly about 3 billion dollars in the red. Within weeks they have now said it will likely go to 10 billion and maybe even up to 20 billion in the red. Why? Because the stock market crash is going to take money out of pockets of the rich and they will be paying less taxes because of it.

[Ghost]

Wow Your Young To Know This Much Thats Impressive.

I Do Allow Objectivity As Long As I Agree With It There Are Subjects I Can Agree With On Obama's Campaign As Far As Reform Of Goverment Spending But I Dont Agree With His Stance On Redistribution Of Wealth.

You prefer the current form of "re-distribution" of wealth?? We pay our hard-earned money in taxes and it gets "re-distributed" upward to corporate America. Can't be denied, it goes to the richest of the rich, Wall Street Bailout, Airlines Bailout, Government Contractors, Mortgage Company bailout, Bailout of the banks etc etc. You wouldn't rather see the big corporations money come back to the "little guy"?

[MYCAR47562]

read the post above yours it explains the problem with his style of redistribution of wealth

[Ghost]

Oriondk, I truly respect your opinion but must disagree with the theory in regard to the wealthy folks. Wealthy people have lots of money, lots of money buys the best accountants, the best accountants can make numbers say anything they want, flimsy numbers and hiding wealth means they don't pay as much as is required.

[Ghost]

read the post above yours it explains the problem with his style of redistribution of wealth

Please see above comment from me.

So "re-distribution" is fine if its done in a Republican "style"?? I am confused.

[MYCAR47562]

so your only answer to my style is tax fraud explains it? from that i would assume that you dont believe that the stock market is hurting those people.

most rich people dont have liquid money they have stocks and shares in business when the stock market drops 4k points in the last 6 months it hurts them pretty bad.


and yes i do have a problem with obama's because it takes a while for his system to start working at first the companys start hurting and fire people. then those people cant get hired because no one is hiring because the taxing is hurting every business. when it finally gets going those people who got laid off use there money to survive not to buy luxury items.

luxury items are what keep this economy alive it isnt the banks it isnt the walmarts its the malls its the mom and pop store's. so you see how in the first year we could be put in such a hole that no matter how much of a tax break we get it will be hard to pull out of

[MYCAR47562]

h another one of obama's stances i like are the tax breaks for business that bring jobs back to america. cause who here is tired of indian customer service people

[Ghost]

h another one of obama's stances i like are the tax breaks for business that bring jobs back to america. cause who here is tired of indian customer service people

Something that we can DEFINITELY agree on.

[MYCAR47562]

it is unamerican for our goverment to give tax breaks to company's who ship jobs over sea's.

now do you know who started that?

[Ghost]

it is unamerican for our goverment to give tax breaks to company's who ship jobs over sea's.

now do you know who started that?

Yes I do and do you know who recently tried to expand it (CAFTA)???

[MYCAR47562]

yes and i dont agree with it at all if we brought all those jobs back to america the only people on welfare would be the ones who wouldnt work.

but how could clinton support taking jobs away if he supports the middle class?

[gtrman66]

I was one who held high hopes when the republicans had it all. I really believed that this could be the return of the US as power it was known as under Reagan.

Wow, was I disappointed, disillusioned, depressed.... they spent like drunken democrats.

That's why I gave up on both parties and vote libertarian. I will do my best to boost evey libertarian candidate. They seem to be the ONLY party in favor of smaller gov't - which is the only way to truly lower taxes.

You want better education? Return the power to the states and end all the touchy - feely mandates of the feds on our school systems.

[Ghost]

yes and i dont agree with it at all if we brought all those jobs back to america the only people on welfare would be the ones who wouldnt work.

but how could clinton support taking jobs away if he supports the middle class?

Clinton wasn't the one who initially started the push for NAFTA, it was President George H.W. Bush and Clinton was saddled with it.

Following is an excerpt made by President George H.W. Bush during the initialing ceremony for NAFTA. This speech was made October 7, 1992 - a month before Bill Clinton was elected to office and three months before he took office.

...Today the United States, Mexico, and Canada embark together on an extraordinary enterprise. We are creating the largest, richest, and most productive market in the entire world, a trillion market of 360 million people that stretches 5,000 miles from Alaska and the Yukon to the Yucatan Peninsula. NAFTA, the North American free trade agreement, is an achievement of three strong and proud nations. This accord expresses our confidence in economic freedom and personal freedom, in our peoples' energy and enterprise. The United States, Mexico, and Canada have already seen the powerful and beneficial impact of freer trade and more open markets. Over the past 5 years, as President Salinas reduced trade barriers under his bold reform program and as Prime Minister Mulroney and I implemented the United States-Canadian Free Trade Agreement, trade between our three countries has soared. In 1992 alone, that trade will reach an estimated 3 billion, up billion just since 1987...

Were you aware?

[MYCAR47562]

I Feel The Same Way I Just Dont Know How A Third Party Could Win

[starrzzz]

and i want to add one more thing im not bitter im scared this dude scares the hell out of me

I know I will get blasted but...oh well....what exactly are you afraid of?

Are you afraid we will be attacked by a hostile country? Are you afraid our stock market will crash and the WORLD will lose faith in our economy? Are you afraid that gas prices will spike? Are you afraid that we will have a huge unemployment rate? Are you afraid we will start regulating business more?

Cuz uh....we already went through that.

Seriously...without being a smartass...was he my favorite choice? No. The Republican party lost this race because they picked the wrong man who, in turn, picked the wrong woman. He simply didn't connect with the American people while Obama ran a 21st century race and energized the Independent, youth and post-graduate vote.
People should be paying more attention to their votes on state supreme court seats and their Senate and Congress seats..

Will I pay more taxes? Yes. Do I want to? No.
But I will trade that for being able to protect a woman's right to choose, my right (one day) to marry and adopt children into a loving home (shame on you Arkansas) and to be able to say that the populus has actually been able to look past color on such an important scale. I actually didn't think it would happen.
For the record...I am a Libertarian and white and I will be one of the folks paying more taxes.

[MYCAR47562]

Clinton wasn't the one who initially started the push for NAFTA, it was President George H.W. Bush and Clinton was saddled with it.

Following is an excerpt made by President George H.W. Bush during the initialing ceremony for NAFTA. This speech was made October 7, 1992 - a month before Bill Clinton was elected to office and three months before he took office.

...Today the United States, Mexico, and Canada embark together on an extraordinary enterprise. We are creating the largest, richest, and most productive market in the entire world, a trillion market of 360 million people that stretches 5,000 miles from Alaska and the Yukon to the Yucatan Peninsula. NAFTA, the North American free trade agreement, is an achievement of three strong and proud nations. This accord expresses our confidence in economic freedom and personal freedom, in our peoples' energy and enterprise. The United States, Mexico, and Canada have already seen the powerful and beneficial impact of freer trade and more open markets. Over the past 5 years, as President Salinas reduced trade barriers under his bold reform program and as Prime Minister Mulroney and I implemented the United States-Canadian Free Trade Agreement, trade between our three countries has soared. In 1992 alone, that trade will reach an estimated 3 billion, up billion just since 1987...

Were you aware?

NOPE NOT AT ALL HE STILL COULD HAVE STOPPED IT THOUGH

[Ghost]

NOPE NOT AT ALL HE STILL COULD HAVE STOPPED IT THOUGH


With a Republican Congress?

[MYCAR47562]

Im Afraid Of Him Due To His Multiple Connections With Terroists. You Can Play It Off All You Want But It Still Remains He Hangs With The Wrong Crowd.

And Yes Im Woried That He Is Making It Going To Make It Worse. Anybody Who Taxes Business During A Recesion Is Just Asking For Those Business To Close There Doors Not Have More People Come In.

[MYCAR47562]

Ok One More Thing About Him How About Rev. Wright He Says He Never Heard Any Of Those Sermans. Well Is He That Oblivious To Whats Going On Around Him? If So Thats Even Scaryier

[MYCAR47562]

Sorry Last Thing. Starzzz You Will It Is Your Right To Kill A Child? If So I Do Honestly Feel Bad For You

[starrzzz]

Then you shouldn't like Senator McCain because he sat on a board with that same terrorist.
Listen...I will say this...politicians....they are ALL full of shit and they ALL have skeletons..some are more obvious (such as Obama's associations) and some require more closet digging.
I hang with some very rought guys at certain events....trust me...it doesn't make me a criminal.
I am sure you attend guns shows right? Probably some militia/stock pile ammo folks there...but it doesn't make you a fringe member right?

[MYCAR47562]

Militia And Ammo Stockpilers Are Bad People? No Most Of Those People Are The One Who Will Defend You If It Evers Comes Down To Needing Them. And Mccain Didnt Sit On The Board. He Was A Memeber Of A Board That Gave Money To A Foundation That He Started Not Quite As Close As Hanging Out With Him And The Only Other Contact They Had Was Where He Went To A Farewell Dinner For Said Terriost, Probally Because He Was A Memeber Of That Board.

So To Compare Those Two On There Terroistic Compainions Is Just Blaintant Finger Pointing "he Did It To"

[starrzzz]

Sorry Last Thing. Starzzz You Will It Is Your Right To Kill A Child? If So I Do Honestly Feel Bad For You

I believe a woman (not a group of 70 year old men) has the right to choose what she will do.
Do I believe that it should be used as a form of birth control? Absolutely not.
However, let's say that we pass a law that allows an abortion ONLY in the case of rape or incest. Don't you think that a desperate woman will simply get the abortion anyway under the false pretense?
Therefore, I don't think we can make laws forbidding abortion based on a certain set of "pre-approved" circumstances.

Again...just my humble opinion and I respect your stance. We can agree to disagree.

[starrzzz]

Militia And Ammo Stockpilers Are Bad People? No Most Of Those People Are The One Who Will Defend You If It Evers Comes Down To Needing Them. "

You are missing my point kind sir but that's cool.
I'm saying there are bad eggs and whack jobs in every group but your association in that said group doesn't mean, by default, that YOU are a whack job.

[MYCAR47562]

Oh And I Am Part Of An Informal Militia As Are You. I Wanted To Start One Up In My Area But Got Turned Off By The Constant Questioning About My Poltical Views A Militia's Use Is To Protect The Country From Foreign And Domestic. Not Play Politicians

[MYCAR47562]

i know what you are getting at by that but how can one man have so many differnt friends like that. yes i go to gun shows and yes i have met a few nut cases but i dont go to there house i dont invite them to mine i make sure i stay away from them.

but obama didnt space himself from anybody until he had to or he would have lost the race. take rev. wright, he was his preacher for 20 years and all the sudden he cant understand this mans antiamerica views? that doesnt make sence

[MYCAR47562]

I believe a woman (not a group of 70 year old men) has the right to choose what she will do.
Do I believe that it should be used as a form of birth control? Absolutely not.
However, let's say that we pass a law that allows an abortion ONLY in the case of rape or incest. Don't you think that a desperate woman will simply get the abortion anyway under the false pretense?
Therefore, I don't think we can make laws forbidding abortion based on a certain set of "pre-approved" circumstances.

Again...just my humble opinion and I respect your stance. We can agree to disagree.

i can see why you would think that but couldnt we also if proven guilty charge her with murder? wouldnt that be the right thing to do?

[MYCAR47562]

With a Republican Congress?

did he try? if i firmly believed in something i would have tryed not just rolled over

[starrzzz]

Like I said, we simply don't agree and that's fine. I'd rather have someone passionate about their views than someone who doesn't care at all.
It's all good.

[MYCAR47562]

Like I said, we simply don't agree and that's fine. I'd rather have someone passionate about their views than someone who doesn't care at all.
It's all good.

i guess i can agree with that

[Ghost]

did he try? if i firmly believed in something i would have tryed not just rolled over

And run the risk of a over-ridden veto, wouldn't that make a President seem weak to the rest of the world especially in regard to an International treaty?

The issue, in my humble opinion, is not NAFTA it's the overwhelming corporate greed that would encourage a CEO to move his company abroad all the while knowing that it will hurt American workers and the American economy.

[MYCAR47562]

i honestly believe an overridden veto is a sign of him standing up for what he believe's in. to not do so shows a sign of weakness even if that weakness is being scared of seeming weak. i fell i have to always stand up for what i believe in.

but yes the ceo's did do it, so yes it is there fault we just gave them the reason to

["shazbat"]

The issue, in my humble opinion, is not NAFTA it's the overwhelming corporate greed that would encourage a CEO to move his company abroad all the while knowing that it will hurt American workers and the American economy.

We need to add oursleves as either responsible individuals or as a responsible lump in the move to outsource and off-shore everything.
The "G" word, greed, is prevalent through out and we as consumers are just a guilty as the CEO's
How you may ask?
We want everything cheaper.
The average consumer checks two places for the price of either an identical item or preceived identical item. They will buy the cheapest one, wherever it was made.
CEO's are charged with the task of optimizing the companies profit line. There are many ways of accomplishing this but in the end you must sell product. If someone is selling it for less next door and your customers are going there you have to do what will get back the market share. If it means going off shore then you do it.
I'm intentionally leaving executive incentive packages out of this. Those are another issue of discussion.
Bottom line is we ALL want things for less and we ALL want to be paid more. It equates to greed however you look at it and it drives everything.
So in the end we have ourselves to blame for the loss of US manufacturing as much as the corporations.
It's easy to blame the fat cat CEO's and their lucrative salaries, stock options, and bonuses and difficult to see our own part in it.
The Enron type execs are criminals without doubt and their behavior is contemptible but is our own any less so?

[gtrman66]

I think CEO's pay should be capped....


.... if actors, director's, athletes, performers, musicians all adhere to the same standard :eek:

[MYCAR47562]

lol yea you have a point

["shazbat"]

I think CEO's pay should be capped....
:eek:

I won't state whether I agree or not, just who or what sets the standard?

[Ghost]

Shazbat, I can certainly agree with your statement.

[Engels]

Ok One More Thing About Him How About Rev. Wright He Says He Never Heard Any Of Those Sermans.

I'm not going to defend everything Jeremiah Wright said in his Church. But before we get too worked up about him - just ask yourself: Do you have any idea what a 60-something African-American from Philadelphia and Chicago would have experienced in his lifetime? The discrimination in housing, voting, and from the police? I can remember seeing the awful conditions of Cabrini Green and other Chicago public housing projects. It was actually hard to believe that such conditions existed in any modern country - let alone the United States.

Wright served his country, first in the Marine Corps., and then as a Navy Corpsman in the 1960s. He actually became a medical technician responsible for caring for President Lyndon Johnson.

So - yeah, he was angry about some of the things he, and his parishoners, may have experienced in his lifetime. Like young, poor black men being drafted to go off and fight and (often) die for freedom in Vietnam - when they didn't really enjoy much in the way of freedom in their own country.

Have you ever been angry about something that happened to you that you thought was unfair? Ever said something as a result that was over the top or extreme? Frankly, you'd have to have to be living Saint NOT to have done so.

So - lets not make the mistake of making Barack Obama guilty by association with his (former) pastor. Obama made a very eloquent speech earlier this year in which he denounced Wright's statements. And when Wright continued to make intemperate comments, Obama cut him loose.

I hope, MyCar, that you don't have any friends who sometimes say racist, or stupid, or sexist, or just plain mean things. I know I've got friends who do. I don't agree with everything they say - but if I made a point of turning away from everyone who said something unpleasant - I'd not have many friends left.

[MYCAR47562]

"GOD DAMN AMERICA" thats a little past being upset if he felt that way why didnt he leave?

[vrodderD]

This will be that same taxes that we paid during the Clinton years. Has everyone forgot that this was the best economy in the USA to date.. Oh ya he had a balance budget with help of the REP. It was nice for Bill to pay the bills and not leave a mess for our kids.


Can any Rep since Ronny say the same ? NOPE

Yea, but G, you gotta remember, thats when the fed mandated that Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac begin lending to lower income folks. Not that the idea is a bad thing at all, we all need a roof over our head, but the lendee needs to be able to pay the money back. And with any mandated regulation, some sleazeball (e.g. Countrywide) will find loopholes. Now the housing bubble has burst and we are all going to have to take a big bite of shit sandwich.

Higher taxes isn't the answer for everything. Controlling spending is the first thing you could and should do to keep more of it in the treasury. Just my 2

[MYCAR47562]

oh engels its good to see you back luckily ghost was here to keep the argueing going

[Engels]

Look, without meaning to sound patronizing, I don't think a 20-something white kid from Georgia has any idea what a 60-something black man might have experienced in his lifetime.

Maybe for you racism is drunk guys using the N-word when you're hanging out in somebody's basement. But for Rev. Wright it literally meant knowing of black men who were lynched for "talking sassy" to a white woman. Of seeing civil rights workers murdered, and the local cops doing nothing about it. Before you start criticizing someone, it helps if you put yourself in his shoes.

Secondly, you are finding Obama guilty of (?) something by his association with Wright. We stopped doing that a long time ago, in another silly and ugly period of American history called the McCarthy era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism).

We all know people who may have said or done stupid or illegal things. That doesn't make US guilty of the same thing. This constant reiteration of the bullshit "guilt by association" is getting boring. You keep saying "Reverend Wright" and expect everyone to suddenly come around to your way of thinking. We don't - in fact it simply confirms that you don't have any credible arguments.

To his credit, John McCain refused to use Reverend Wright in his campaign. Maybe he felt that, if held to the same standard, HE TOO might be found to have known people that did or said stupid things. And maybe, true to his nature, he felt it was beneath his principles of common decency to use it in the campaign. I'll just finish up by saying that this is something that Governor Palin seemed to have a difference of opinion on.

[The G]

Yea, but G, you gotta remember, thats when the fed mandated that Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac begin lending to lower income folks. Not that the idea is a bad thing at all, we all need a roof over our head, but the lendee needs to be able to pay the money back. And with any mandated regulation, some sleazeball (e.g. Countrywide) will find loopholes. Now the housing bubble has burst and we are all going to have to take a big bite of shit sandwich.

Higher taxes isn't the answer for everything. Controlling spending is the first thing you could and should do to keep more of it in the treasury. Just my 2Thats true and lack of regulations was a big part of the problem. The banks knew the loans where a risky thats why they charged more. People wanting a house signed for loans they couldn't afford if the interest rates went up.

I'm not fighting with you. :cheers:

[MYCAR47562]

so because i live in atlanta ga and am only 22 i dont know about racism? i deal with it everyday except now its the other way around. am i saying what he went through wasnt hard no.

if you were reading the rest of my post you would have saw that the point i was trying to make was that if obama could sit in his congragation for 20 years and be oblivious to what he was preaching then what else is he oblivious to? and if he isnt oblivious how could we elect a racist?

now get off your high horse

[vrodderD]

Reverend Wright/Father Pfleger= Barack Hussein Obama

I don't see much distinction from associating all the BS that the dems spouted about GW and Cheney benefitting from Haliburton.
Nor that GW blew up the twin towers and Pentagon...

I can go on and on. The liberals have made their bed for the past 8 years with all the poison vitrole and demagoguery and now they get to experience it.

[MYCAR47562]

vrodder you know thats only a one way street just ask charlie sheen

[vrodderD]

I'm not fighting with you. :cheers:

Me neither bro. We can all be civil and still disagree. Thats what makes this country great.

I have no problem with Obama being black. I just don't like that he's liberal. If had been a conservative and on the ticket, I would have voted for him. We need to try to get past the race card and call these guys as we see them. We can disagree on each other politics without calling each other names.

Having said that, I think the MSM will give Obama a free pass due to his skin color and that he is the first african american president. I hope I am wrong about this, but I don't see them calling him on his policies and beating the shit out of him like they did the previous president.

[MYCAR47562]

im out for the night

[The G]

Reverend Wright/Father Pfleger= Barack Hussein Obama

I don't see much distinction from associating all the BS that the dems spouted about GW and Cheney benefitting from Haliburton.
Nor that GW blew up the twin towers and Pentagon...

I can go on and on. The liberals have made their bed for the past 8 years with all the poison vitrole and demagoguery and now they get to experience it.The issue with Haliburton is there where no bidding on contracts for work in Irac which is the way the US does business. Remember the air re fuelers contracts that where called back because of someone playing with the contract system ? I think I can thank John McCain for this one and I do mean thank you.

[Oriondk]

Oriondk, I truly respect your opinion but must disagree with the theory in regard to the wealthy folks. Wealthy people have lots of money, lots of money buys the best accountants, the best accountants can make numbers say anything they want, flimsy numbers and hiding wealth means they don't pay as much as is required.

That's not entirely true. It's much harder now than it used to be to find tax loop-holes. And it is true that a good part of California's money comes from high taxes on the rich and the resulting problems that has created. California's capitol gains taxes are expected to fall by 50% this year. Where do most capitol gains taxes come from? The wealthy.

[gtrman66]

The issue with Haliburton is there where no bidding on contracts for work in Irac which is the way the US does business. Remember the air re fuelers contracts that where called back because of someone playing with the contract system ? I think I can thank John McCain for this one and I do mean thank you.

One word... Rezko

[Ghost]

That's not entirely true. It's much harder now than it used to be to find tax loop-holes. And it is true that a good part of California's money comes from high taxes on the rich and the resulting problems that has created. California's capitol gains taxes are expected to fall by 50% this year. Where do most capitol gains taxes come from? The wealthy.


Is the drop in capital gains due to the bottom dropping out of home values?

[Oriondk]

Is the drop in capital gains due to the bottom dropping out of home values?

Home values, and the stock market. Look, we had the same problem in the early 90's with the dot com boom. Capitol gains tax revenues went way up, about 25% in one year, due to all the new millionaires. What did the Democrats do? Hey, we have all this new money, lets finance some new programs, mandate some of them as a matter of fact. The Republicans wanted to save the money in a rainy day fund, but are out numbered in liberal Kalifornia. Two years later, the dot com bust, and all that money went away, but guess what! The new programs were still there, needing to be funded.

[The G]

One word... Rezko

Guilt by association........ please

[MYCAR47562]

Look, without meaning to sound patronizing, I don't think a 20-something white kid from Georgia has any idea what a 60-something black man might have experienced in his lifetime.

Maybe for you racism is drunk guys using the N-word when you're hanging out in somebody's basement. But for Rev. Wright it literally meant knowing of black men who were lynched for "talking sassy" to a white woman. Of seeing civil rights workers murdered, and the local cops doing nothing about it. Before you start criticizing someone, it helps if you put yourself in his shoes.

Secondly, you are finding Obama guilty of (?) something by his association with Wright. We stopped doing that a long time ago, in another silly and ugly period of American history called the McCarthy era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism).

We all know people who may have said or done stupid or illegal things. That doesn't make US guilty of the same thing. This constant reiteration of the bullshit "guilt by association" is getting boring. You keep saying "Reverend Wright" and expect everyone to suddenly come around to your way of thinking. We don't - in fact it simply confirms that you don't have any credible arguments.

To his credit, John McCain refused to use Reverend Wright in his campaign. Maybe he felt that, if held to the same standard, HE TOO might be found to have known people that did or said stupid things. And maybe, true to his nature, he felt it was beneath his principles of common decency to use it in the campaign. I'll just finish up by saying that this is something that Governor Palin seemed to have a difference of opinion on.

so because i live in atlanta ga and am only 22 i dont know about racism? i deal with it everyday except now its the other way around. am i saying what he went through wasnt hard no.

if you were reading the rest of my post you would have saw that the point i was trying to make was that if obama could sit in his congragation for 20 years and be oblivious to what he was preaching then what else is he oblivious to? and if he isnt oblivious how could we elect a racist? i want your comment from this

[gtrman66]

Guilt by association........ please

Re: Rezko

You are known by the company you keep..... and the guy you get a shady "to good to be true" homeloan from.

[MYCAR47562]

Originally Posted by The G
Guilt by association........ please


how can you say that but our police officers would arrest you in a second if you were around one of your friends that had done half the crap that guy did.

anyway how about this instead of thinking guilt by association how about you look at his morals, obama hung with a guy who bombed the pentagon but oh wait that doesnt matter mccain bumped into him one time at sears 20 years ago

[Ghost]

Re: Rezko

You are known by the company you keep..... and the guy you get a shady "to good to be true" homeloan from.


Well..........you said it...........but this wasnt a quick howyadoin relationship........this was co-chair of a state campaign.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2008/02/renzis-record-s.html

[MYCAR47562]

your right ghost who was i ever to compare a money launder to a man who bombed places

[Ghost]

your right ghost who was i ever to compare a money launder to a man who bombed places

Wake up!!! Grab another cup of coffee!!! Snap out of it!!!!! He was talking about Rezko not Ayers. Get with the program.

[gtrman66]

Well..........you said it...........but this wasnt a quick howyadoin relationship........this was co-chair of a state campaign.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2008/02/renzis-record-s.html

Yep they are all crooks. That's what I've been saying since the beginning.

[MYCAR47562]

And Im Compareing The Charges

[vrodderD]

Time will tell and History will be the judge.

If Obama actually accomplishes anything in 4 years, he will be lucky. But he will be forever hounded by his promises and whether or not the Reid/Pelosi Congress will back him up on it. I doubt it will be "bi-partisan" as they claim.

[MYCAR47562]

i dont think he will be hounded how many other presidents havent been hounded over broken promises

[MYCAR47562]

How Does This Thread Make You Feel Now?

[Motive]

Just as pissed off as it would have if I had read it the day it happened.

He was voted in by a bunch of racists....however, as usual, the alternative sucked as well.

[gtrman66]

I tried to give him a chance when he first got in. Stupid me.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

My credit card company's have stopped playing games with electronic payments.
Everything else is worse than when the war pig was in office.

[right$pecial]

There's a fair bit of irony in when looking back at the first few pages of comments in this thread.

[MYCAR47562]

There's a fair bit of irony in when looking back at the first few pages of comments in this thread.

yes there is...... and after a little reading i don't think engels and tt are anywhere close to the same person

[nelson]

How Does This Thread Make You Feel Now?

This post (http://www.forum-political.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1191&postcount=3) from Engels, and the OP in this thread, still make me think of misplaced pride, and pride encouraged for certain colors of people, while being discouraged for others. In my view this is a silly perspective, which I completely disagree with.

I'm quite certain Obama won't be a perfect President. He'll make mistakes like all the rest of them, and will make some appointments that don't quite live up to our expectations.

But you can all rest assured of the following: We won't be turned over to terrorists. The Government won't come around to collect your guns. Your taxes won't skyrocket. The medical system won't be taken over by the Government. Israel will not be turned into a smoking ruin.

With a little luck some things will get better: Most of us will see our Federal taxes decrease. Our active duty and reserve military people will not continue to spend one year out of every three deployed to Iraq. We'll come up with a sensible energy policy so we won't see another summer of $4.40/gallon gasoline.I don't think smart people ever blame a President for gas prices. Of course I still fear tax increases, government grabbing at the medical system, chipping away at gun owners, and overlooking our vulnerability to terrorism. I certainly fear for Israel as our leadership shows increased empathy for their terrorist enemies.

Two observations:

I never thought John McCain was a bad man, or would have been a bad President. Eight years ago I would have very happily voted for him. My only real disappointments with him were related to the campaign: his selection of Sarah Palin was a disgrace; and he allowed, if not encouraged, some of his supporters to engage vicious and ugly rumor-mongering.

And lastly, maybe some of the people who read this board and the 1130 site ought to take a few days to consider what the election means in terms of the political attitudes and beliefs of a significant majority (for now..) of the rest of the citizens of the United States.Attempting to destroy Sarah Palin was more a disgrace than anything else. She is actually moderately conservative - a rarity in this political climate - so her selection intrigued me, and left me thinking I might find some trust in McCain. But in the end he was not the answer conservatives needed. My hope is now that, after such a sharp swing to the extreme left, we will see an equally sharp bounce back someday, under a strong, conservative leader. But my fear is that we will not!

And I'm not sure what he meant when he said "consider what this election means..." It clearly meant one candidate won over another. Probably Engels and I would disagree on the whys and hows, but that's all irrelevant now.

[Remphoto]

I found Engels post to be interesting to say the least. He missed what bho would do by a large margin. He does share an obsessive dislike for ms palin with his compadre tt. And mycar. How you have grown in wisdom.

[MYCAR47562]

rem i know what you mean i read the first page and was floored by some of the stuff i said.... if i ever run for political office this will be one thread that will have to be cleared

[MYCAR47562]

i have a question though how did engels know that obama was gonna nominate all those tax cheats?

[MYCAR47562]

I'm not going to defend everything Jeremiah Wright said in his Church. But before we get too worked up about him - just ask yourself: Do you have any idea what a 60-something African-American from Philadelphia and Chicago would have experienced in his lifetime? The discrimination in housing, voting, and from the police? I can remember seeing the awful conditions of Cabrini Green and other Chicago public housing projects. It was actually hard to believe that such conditions existed in any modern country - let alone the United States.

Wright served his country, first in the Marine Corps., and then as a Navy Corpsman in the 1960s. He actually became a medical technician responsible for caring for President Lyndon Johnson.

So - yeah, he was angry about some of the things he, and his parishoners, may have experienced in his lifetime. Like young, poor black men being drafted to go off and fight and (often) die for freedom in Vietnam - when they didn't really enjoy much in the way of freedom in their own country.

Have you ever been angry about something that happened to you that you thought was unfair? Ever said something as a result that was over the top or extreme? Frankly, you'd have to have to be living Saint NOT to have done so.

So - lets not make the mistake of making Barack Obama guilty by association with his (former) pastor. Obama made a very eloquent speech earlier this year in which he denounced Wright's statements. And when Wright continued to make intemperate comments, Obama cut him loose.

I hope, MyCar, that you don't have any friends who sometimes say racist, or stupid, or sexist, or just plain mean things. I know I've got friends who do. I don't agree with everything they say - but if I made a point of turning away from everyone who said something unpleasant - I'd not have many friends left.

james taggart?

[nelson]

james taggart?:rofl

Wow, Mycar. I'd say you are dead on.

I understand Engels' point. It's been standard fare for decades, as Mycar observes. But our empathy for someone, and our understanding of them, does not excuse them from inexcusable behavior.

It is true that at one time, out of arrogance, we had different official rules for different colors of people. This time out of understanding and empathy, Engels is advocating we continue the exact same policy.

I disagree. The time for anger was decades ago. Wright's anger today is nothing but a primitive grudge. It hurts him, and everyone around him, much more than it helps him. And it is irrelevant to me.

[Jeb]

I always say, read their two autobiographies and then tell me what he will do! He tells you he don't like white people, America or the Constitution...and somehow I am to believe his own words have changed! Never has so much definative info been overwhelmingly ignore by the media and another candidate! All because he is half black! The black half is off limits...but feel free to do as he does and bash and otherwise through under the bus the white half!