Toyota

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

What are your opinions and or professional knowledge of the Toyota throttle problem?
How many believe that it's an electrical gremlin and not a mechanical problem and why do you believe one way or the other,or both?

[Remphoto]

Electrical. Mechanical linkages have been around so long they should be goof proof. Based on electronic gremlins I'm experiencing with k1300gt that bmw can't figure out that's my guess. But you're expert Al, what do you think?

[MYCAR47562]

im still not convinced it isn't the floormat riding up, back when i worked at toyota i would get a complaint of car taking off by it self, only to find out it's a floormat. but who knows i could find out from a sure source if you would like

[Max]

I know a couple techs that work on them daily. Off the record they believe the potentiometer and moisture is the problem. The thought is that moisture enters and causes a false reading to the ecm which causes the full or higher reading causing the throttle to react as it does. They both indicated they have been dealing with these complaints for years and that Toyota has been well aware of it and avoided it due to the cost to actually bring all the cars in and do a real repair. They say the proposed piece is a bandaid. Keep in mind they both said this off the record saying they have been asked to not make any comments on the subject.

[TaxmanHog]

Is the fly bywire electronic throttle on some late bikes experiencing this kind of problem?

[Max]

Is the fly bywire electronic throttle on some late bikes experiencing this kind of problem?

None that I have heard of. They use a system built by delphi on Harley's and delphi is who makes it for GM and I have never heard of a single incident of this on any GM. GM uses a system that if the data doesn't make sense it goes into a fail safe no throttle. Meaning if the data goes to 5 volt or full throttle without going up the scale and simply jumps up it assumes failure and to be honest I have never heard of anyone saying they went into fail safe I just know it is there.

[gtrman66]

Glad I stuck to Fords so far :D

I do not know enough to comment on electrical, mechanical or programming, but fly by wire does not instill a lot of confidence in me.

[Max]

Glad I stuck to Fords so far :D

I do not know enough to comment on electrical, mechanical or programming, but fly by wire does not instill a lot of confidence in me.


Roy, when drive by wire first came out I thought the same thing. Now I wish I had a way to update my v-rod to it. Drive by wire when done right is the best thing since sliced bread. Many people don't realize that when connected by cable that the cab and motor are moving differently which caused unnecessary movement and fuel consumption and vibration. Drive by wire removes all that.

[Remphoto]

My k1300gt has dbw and while I haven't had unintended acceleration I've had the opposite - slow speed stalling. Quite a butt clencher when the engine dies while downshifting on an exit ramp riding 2 up. Bmw denied any problem until enough of us complained. They issued a recall but the fixes (tbi cleaning and remap) aren't working very well. On top of that both handlebar switch assemblies are recalled. More electronics-more hard to diagnose problems.

[Motive]

I was under the impression that my Ford ('02 SD) was drive by wire, since I can't seem to find the throttle cable...

Many times I've been under the hood with someone hittin the throttle...and I have yet to see any movement.

[Max]

Rem after you clean the TBI turn on the key but don't start the engine. Let it sit for at least two minutes not running. Turn the key off, wait ten seconds and then start it. See if that helps to relearn base IAC position.

[Remphoto]

Rem after you clean the TBI turn on the key but don't start the engine. Let it sit for at least two minutes not running. Turn the key off, wait ten seconds and then start it. See if that helps to relearn base IAC position.

Thanks Max. I'll mention that to them when I take it in for the recall. They are blaming it on a combination of bad US gas leaving deposits on the TBI plus software mapping. People that have had the "fix" are still having occasional stalling. To me it seems like a switch has been turned off -- it just quits when you pull in the clutch -- no power loss, stuttering, etc. Given the sorry switchgear on the bike, it could be that, too, I suppose. This bike has a lot of pluses, not the least of which is unbelievable acceleration and handling, but four recalls/bulletins is a little much for a 6 month old bike.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

None that I have heard of. They use a system built by delphi on Harley's and delphi is who makes it for GM and I have never heard of a single incident of this on any GM. GM uses a system that if the data doesn't make sense it goes into a fail safe no throttle. Meaning if the data goes to 5 volt or full throttle without going up the scale and simply jumps up it assumes failure and to be honest I have never heard of anyone saying they went into fail safe I just know it is there.

I have changed 2 units on very high mileage filthy interior Cadillacs.
The 2 Caddy's I worked on defaulted to idle.

On the Toyota's in question,I have been told when the potentiometers get out of sinc,that default is 3000 rpms,not idle.
I've been told that what makes the pots get out of sinc is failure at the throttle pedal hinge from premature wear.I think the fix they have coming up is a reinforcement of the hinge.
These statements are to be taken with a grain or 2 of salt because of the reliabilty of mechanical ability's of the 2 persons that said this.

I've never even looked at Toyota's TBW system and since this has come into public view,I havn't had a chance to get in a Toyota and disable the TBW system to find out where the engine rpms default to.

[Remphoto]

I have changed 2 units on very high mileage filthy interior Cadillacs.
The 2 Caddy's I worked on defaulted to idle.

On the Toyota's in question,I have been told when the potentiometers get out of sinc,that default is 3000 rpms,not idle.
I've been told that what makes the pots get out of sinc is failure at the throttle pedal hinge from premature wear.I think the fix they have coming up is a reinforcement of the hinge.
These statements are to be taken with a grain or 2 of salt because of the reliabilty of mechanical ability's of the 2 persons that said this.

I've never even looked at Toyota's TBW system and since this has come into public view,I havn't had a chance to get in a Toyota and disable the TBW system to find out where the engine rpms default to.

If it is true that the default was set at 3,000 rpm, that is insanity. Why would they do it? As a limp-home mode? Just doesn't make sense.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

I don't know how true this is.All i have fr info is alldata and Toyota is very thin on any info.
If the system defaults to a higher rpm than idle,I wouldn't think it's set to do this,I think it's a flaw in the software.

[Max]

Well I saw on the news this morning the precision piece they talk about. It looked like a square piece of steel that simply was inserted in the side of the pedal that forces the pedal to the right and holds pressure on it. I hope it works for them but I can't help but feel they are putting a bandaid on the problem. I think it does come with a new flash that probably does more then the support, lets hope it lowers the default idle speed during communication failures.

[gtrman66]

and it just get worse for Toyota...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100204/ap_on_bi_ge/toyota_recall

TOKYO – Toyota acknowledged design problems with the brakes in its prized Prius, adding to the catalog of safety woes at the Japanese automaker as it reels from massive global recalls involving faulty gas pedals.

Toyota Motor Corp., which Thursday reported a $1.7 billion profit for last quarter, said it had corrected problems with the antilock brake system in Prius models sold since late last month, including those shipped overseas.

But the company was still deciding what steps to take to fix the problem in Prius cars sold in Japan and overseas before late January.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

For one of the few times in my life,I followed a rule and posted this thread on this forum so it COULD turn political,that and I appreciate Max's logical approach at specific systems diagnostics.

I believe Toyota is in deep shit with this problem,deeper than if the TBW,or as it's actually called in the N.American field,PPS (pedal position sensor),than if this were just 1 or 2 isolated incidents with high dollar law suits.
This is going to destroy Toyota's reputation as a quality vehicle,which I never thought they were any better than other brands with similar models.I can speak from a couple of view points on Toyota's quality popularity as I have owned a few different models through out the years,new and used,along with rebuilding several hundred JATCO automatic and stick shift transmissions in the years gone by.Toyota also uses GM front and rear drive transmissions in specific vehicles.

Remember now,other than being an auto mechanic,I am one of the simple minded type consumers that make up the largest part of our consumer population.

There are to many ideas of what is wrong with this system."They" claim the pedal problem is isolated to the CTS brands of pedal with the Denso pedal not affected,while there are some customer complaints on the throttle sticking on the Japan made Denso equipped vehicles.
One thing that got under my skin this morning,was listening to a man discuss the problem with a British accent.
The floor mat lie was skeptical for me but,then showing a small piece of stamped steel the size of a nickel and telling me it is a precision made part is smoke blowing.A nickel has more precision in it than the pedal metal.
How about the Sec of Transportation and his reneged statement yesterday? I'll bet he got an ass chewing!
What has happened with Toyota stock over this?
When is the brown boy gonna make an apology speech and give a few bows on this situation?

[HoldHard]

My company makes Electronic Throttle Controls (ETC) or fly-by-wire gas pedals for short. Our engineers have several Toyota pedals and their analysis is that the point of contact between the pedal arm and the non-moving 'mount' section is the cause. It is a type of nylon that develops higher friction between the parts when it starts to wear and gets progressively worse once the part degrades. The nickel-sized steel piece that Al described is a quick fix but it really goes back to the initial design. It is the wrong material, but that is exactly what their specifications called out. Shoving metal into a tight area will make the throttle even harder to depress and rebound. They are not saying to change the springs to a stronger version, just cram in a shim. Idiotic....

How this ever got through quality assurance testing is beyond me. We have a test lab that puts our pedals through millions of cycles to verify that they meet the customer's specifications.

When Sec of Transportation LaHood announced yesterday that everyone should stop driving their Toyotas, I was laughing so hard, tears came to my eyes.... Not going to happen when it's the only means of getting to work... Only a friggin' elitist shithead that gets driven to work in a limo would come up with that hair-brained idea....

BTW, our pedal designs use a stiff polypropylene material and have a very slick plastic washer at this exact point of contact. When the customer specifications called for a nylon based material, we would go back and convince them that this was a bad decision and recommend the better material. We supply GM, Ford and a wide variety of non-automotive (CAT, John Deere, etc.) customers.

Toyota stock dropped $10.00 per share when this started to come out... it's probable fallen even further with the latest Prius brake issue. The supplier of the problem pedals, a company called CMS, will certainly be put out of business by this recall as Toyota will not take the fall. They will blame it on the supplier for 'faulty workmanship' and another American company will be filling the unemployment lines.


HH

[MYCAR47562]

The Recall Heard Round The World......



Maybe I Was Wrong About The Gas Pedal Floor Mat Thing But I Did Say It Was My Opinion As I Havent Even Been In A Toyota Since 2007

[Remphoto]

Again one has to ask how something as basic and proven over so many years as a gas pedal can get this screwed up. But as with all things in a free market if left alone the market will correct the situation. It won't be clean or pretty. Toyota sales will falter for a time but eventually will rebound. Gm and ford will get a boost even though they have had their own quality issues in the past. The transportation secretary needs to shutup and get back in his limo.

[gtrman66]

Interesting discussion I had with a Quality Engineer at work today. He said Toyota went so long on luck that they are incompetent to deal with a really bad situation. Basically, there was not a plan in place to deal with "failure". I said, they ought to lure some 1980's GM engineers out of retirement :rofl:

Here's a question that must be asked (and you heard it here first) - Is Toyota too big to fail? Will BO bail them out?

[Max]

Roy don't kid yourself about GM. Working for them as long as I did I can tell you they put on blinders still today when problems come up. They weigh the legal cost versus the repair cost and figure what they call TTSS (time to separate system), meaning how long before they work there way out of the system. It isn't about doing the right thing, it's all business and it comes down to which path is least expensive. I'm pretty sure Toyota took lessons from GM on this and miscalculated.

[Jeb]

They actaully forgot that Obamamotors has the power to hurt Toyota with sanctions and recalls and who will benefit! I have owned numerous Chevys that had serious defects yet I simply got a letter about the free fix. You are right Max. "I'm pretty sure Toyota took lessons from GM on this and miscalculated" They forgot how this game is being played now!

[Remphoto]

They actaully forgot that Obamamotors has the power to hurt Toyota with sanctions and recalls and who will benefit! I have owned numerous Chevys that had serious defects yet I simply got a letter about the free fix. You are right Max. "I'm pretty sure Toyota took lessons from GM on this and miscalculated" They forgot how this game is being played now!

Let's not forget the infamous GM pickup trucks with gas tanks mounted outside the frame rails. GM fought the reality of that defect for quite a while.

[nelson]

In a free market, Toyota suffers in proportion to its errors and the corrective measures it takes. In today's USA, damage to Toyota will be compounded by a culture of entitlement, blame and litigation. Add to this the unique circumstance of US government essentially owning Toyota's domestic competitors AND simultaneously having the power to control the auto marketplace. Also consider the corrupt bunch of legislators we have in power today, who are going to feel pressure from constituents and especially from big 3 union donors to take action, pressure which they will harness to grab more power and control, which will in turn further harm the market. A truly free market resolves everything. Unfortunately that's not what we have and after this we may never have it again. It's going to be interesting watching the situation unfold. We'll see what happens, but I'm afraid we won't really know what has happened for quite some time since a lot of it will happen behind closed doors.

[nelson]

Read how the corrupt US government is influencing all of this. Our government has ownership interest in domestic automakers, it's a serious conflict of interest.

Toyota shares slide after U.S. government ups pressure
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61302220100204

U.S. criticizes Toyota statement on floor mats
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33627890/ns/business-autos/

Perception vs. Reality: Is ‘Government Motors’ Picking on Toyota?
http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2010/02/05/perception-vs-reality-is-government-motors-picking-on-toyota/?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines

Is US bullying Toyota on recall?
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5im7AzPBsRb2Q_qT0FXa8DxrjjLwA

Toyota's chief apologizes for global recalls
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100205/D9DM0QM00.html

[Remphoto]

Now watch how UAW uses this to its advantage (with govt assistance of course).

[Max]

This shows why the government should never own any business. Now how about all the people in this country that work for Toyota in the south that are not UAW that may be punished as a result.

[MYCAR47562]

Their Was A Local Ford Dealership That Had An Ad The Other Day Saying Give Toyota Some Time They Will Fix The Problem, Yes It Was Just A "hey Look Were Not Gonna Kick Them While They Are Down Moment" But It Still Showed A Little Class

[coolbreeze]

As this continues to unfold, what we're realizing is that Japanese management is no different then other manufacturers in covering up potential fatality causing problems to protect the bottom line.

[nelson]

Toyota chief to skip US safety hearings
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c41c5a9e-1b2a-11df-953f-00144feab49a.html

Toyota Motor also announced on Wednesday that all future models built by the carmaker would have a brake-override system – which cuts engine power when the accelerator and brake pedals are applied at the same time.

News of the changes to future production came as the carmaker faces dozens of class-action lawsuits in the US that could cost it billions of dollars in damages as the Japanese company struggles to contain the fall-out from its mass recall of faulty cars.

Tim Howard, a law professor at Northeastern University in Boston who is co-ordinating litigation against Toyota, estimated that 44 class-action lawsuits had been filed under state and federal law by the end of last week. He estimated that the claims could reach $3.6bn (€2.6bn), based on an average loss of $600 per vehicle.

[MYCAR47562]

3.6 billion and each family will get there fair share of 50,000 per 44 lawsuits...... gotta love lawyers

[Max]

I hear their slogan will stay the same but the emphasis will change to

Oh Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hh what a feeling. :rofl

[coolbreeze]

Check out page 7 and 13 of this internal Toyota document. It shows Toyota is wise to the inner marxist attributes of Obama's mind.

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_inaba.html

[nelson]

From Politico yesterday:

Toyota: Democrats 'not industry friendly'
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33248.html

The slideshow is titled “Toyota Washington, DC” and the cover sheet is labeled “Yoshi Inaba” – the president of Toyota North America, who is slated to testify.

It is a peek into how Toyota executives view the American political environment.

The “Activist Administration & Congress – increasing laws & regulations” is listed as one of “Toyota Challenges,” as is “Massive government support for Detroit automakers.”

The July 2009 presentation also says the Department of Transportation and National Highway Transportation Safety Administration “under Obama administration” is “not industry friendly,” and anticipates a “more challenging regulatory and enforcement environment.”

It says the NHTSA “new team has less understanding of engineering issues and are primarily focused on legal issues.”I'm no huge Toyota apologist.

But what is happening to Toyota is borderline criminal and certainly not a free market development. The news is full of story after story of investigation after allegation after recall. Am I supposed to think this is being driven by consumers? Maybe if I was stupid I would discount the lawyers, the government, the unions, pretending they have no involvement.

I've owned one Toyota product in my entire life. The 1996 Lexus LX-450 is a superbly designed and built vehicle, just outstanding. I wish we made vehicles like that.

But that's no reason for me to support Toyota. When they screw up I want the market to punish them appropriately. And it will. I don't want our government motors using its union-socialist-litigative clout to rip conquer Toyota.

[Remphoto]

From Politico yesterday:

Toyota: Democrats 'not industry friendly'
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33248.html

I'm no huge Toyota apologist.

But what is happening to Toyota is borderline criminal and certainly not a free market development. The news is full of story after story of investigation after allegation after recall. Am I supposed to think this is being driven by consumers? Maybe if I was stupid I would discount the lawyers, the government, the unions, pretending they have no involvement.

I've owned one Toyota product in my entire life. The 1996 Lexus LX-450 is a superbly designed and built vehicle, just outstanding. I wish we made vehicles like that.

But that's no reason for me to support Toyota. When they screw up I want the market to punish them appropriately. And it will. I don't want our government motors using its union-socialist-litigative clout to rip conquer Toyota.

Exactly. Like everything else happening today, this has become politicized with the Obama administration and its union syncopates doing whatever to damage Toyota. The NHTSA is a joke. For years it has been composed of lefties and lawyers (actually one and the same) more intent on ridding the world of interesting automobiles and encumbering us with features which needlessly add cost.

[coolbreeze]

From Politico yesterday:

Toyota: Democrats 'not industry friendly'
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33248.html

I'm no huge Toyota apologist.

But what is happening to Toyota is borderline criminal and certainly not a free market development. The news is full of story after story of investigation after allegation after recall. Am I supposed to think this is being driven by consumers? Maybe if I was stupid I would discount the lawyers, the government, the unions, pretending they have no involvement.

I've owned one Toyota product in my entire life. The 1996 Lexus LX-450 is a superbly designed and built vehicle, just outstanding. I wish we made vehicles like that.

But that's no reason for me to support Toyota. When they screw up I want the market to punish them appropriately. And it will. I don't want our government motors using its union-socialist-litigative clout to rip conquer Toyota.

Even though I've never owned a Japanese car, I agree 100% Nelson.

Here's the link to the document that I originally forgot to post.

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM116_inaba.html

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

What gets me,is when the news casters talk about the problem here,they always say the "many Toyota recalls".This is definitely a deliberate choice of words.
Just about every vehicle has a recall or a campaign of some sort.Some that I look at are 2 pages full.They cover any thing from odors to brake problems.

[Jeb]

What gets me,is when the news casters talk about the problem here,they always say the "many Toyota recalls".This is definitely a deliberate choice of words.
Just about every vehicle has a recall or a campaign of some sort.Some that I look at are 2 pages full.They cover any thing from odors to brake problems.

This is an all out attack on a private sector car company by a Govt owned one! Another good reason not to mix business with politicians!

[Max]

It's so funny the media never blew out of proportion the "thermal event" campaign GM did on the corsica and berretta for all the years. I couldn't tell you how many ford 460's and 390's I repaired after the fuel line that ran right up against the distributor leaked and the engines set on fire.That was one that turned the car into a flame going down the road. Or the recall ford did on it's cruise control units on all trucks, the switch that would melt in the middle of the night and set dozens of houses on fire. Over the years I can't even remember all the campaigns that I have done on GM's for safety related issues. Seat belts that didn't hold, I mean you name it and it's been done. I agree the throttle issue should have been taken care of long ago but this does seem like government may not be impartial on this matter.

[Motive]

Getting the public to dump Toyota for GM or Chrysler, means getting some return on their investment.

[Max]

Getting the public to dump Toyota for GM or Chrysler, means getting some return on their investment.

I don't think the government will ever get the first penny of the original money back. But it would possibly keep them from having to feed the unions with even more money.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

Is it my ignorance,or is this a first for the Congress to be involved in a situation like this.

I just watched the lady from Ten.in the Lexus give her statement on the news.She was good,good enough to be a Hollywood actress.I can understand people freaking out and loosing control in a situation as she experienced,but when she involved God in the car coming to a stop I cussed her out loud.

[MYCAR47562]

I Bet If You Asked A Cop Who Responds To Wrecks Id Bet At Least 10 % Blamed It On The Car..... So I Honestly Can't Put Much Weight Behind Most Of These Story's


"i Was Getting On The Highway And The Next Thing I Know Im Doing Over 100..... Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.... Bam........." Sounds To Me Like She Is Covering Her **** Now Have They Proved Her Accelerator Was Stuck?

[Jeb]

If you new how many people die in wrecks due to faulty parts or improper assembly...you would rather ride a motorcycle! That said, I have a 2003 Chevy Silverado with quadrasteer and at 80,000 miles the only thing that has gone bad is the O2 sensor!

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

Has anyone listened to the 911 tape of the guy that claimed the throttle stuck in the Prius? The whole scenario seems rehearsed.

I know people get confused and all exited when a situation like a throttle stuck at wide opened,but he had enough calm about his self to open his phone,dial 911 and talk with dispatch.I wonder why he didn't respond when the 911 dispatcher kept asking him if he could shut the engine down with the key?
Kinda coincidental that this happened while Toyota was having their conference.

[MYCAR47562]

ive been thinking the same thing

[Remphoto]

Sound odd to me, also. But both my MINI and 328xi use start buttons and not conventional keys so not sure if you can kill the engine in an emergency. However, why not shift to neutral?

[Max]

Sound odd to me, also. But both my MINI and 328xi use start buttons and not conventional keys so not sure if you can kill the engine in an emergency. However, why not shift to neutral?

Any car with a button start system by default must switch off if the button is held down for five seconds.

[MYCAR47562]

sounds like instead if making the cars have a brake over ride maybe we should stop the use of push to start cars either that or force the dealerships to tell the customers about the 5 seconds and off.


also thanks for the info on the push button max i had never heard that before

[Remphoto]

Any car with a button start system by default must switch off if the button is held down for five seconds.

Good to know but 5 seconds can be an eternity in an emergency. Modern cars can accelerate pretty fast (but not a prius).

[Max]

Good to know but 5 seconds can be an eternity in an emergency. Modern cars can accelerate pretty fast (but not a prius).

At the 3 second point it should cut power to the engine if memory serves me. Then total shutdown at the 5 second point.

[Motive]

Good to know but 5 seconds can be an eternity in an emergency. Modern cars can accelerate pretty fast (but not a prius).

yeah, just aim for a steep hill

[Max]

If were talking about the latest Prius incident I smell scam. There is no way the Pruis has nearly as much engine as it has brake system. There is no way the brakes wouldn't slow this car down even if the engine were stuck at full throttle but listening to the recording on 911 and the timing of the whole thing just doesn't smell good to me.

[TaxmanHog]

Has anyone listened to the 911 tape of the guy that claimed the throttle stuck in the Prius? The whole scenario seems rehearsed.

I know people get confused and all exited when a situation like a throttle stuck at wide opened,but he had enough calm about his self to open his phone,dial 911 and talk with dispatch.I wonder why he didn't respond when the 911 dispatcher kept asking him if he could shut the engine down with the key?
Kinda coincidental that this happened while Toyota was having their conference.

I honestly think the guy is wacked..... more will come out of the woodwork soon enough to jump the litigation band wagon!!

[Remphoto]

If were talking about the latest Prius incident I smell scam. There is no way the Pruis has nearly as much engine as it has brake system. There is no way the brakes wouldn't slow this car down even if the engine were stuck at full throttle but listening to the recording on 911 and the timing of the whole thing just doesn't smell good to me.

I agree. He seemed clueless about what to do -- not even taking advice to shift to neutral. I'm guessing he is some car-hating pointy headed tree-hugger type who views the Prius as a necessary evil when it is too far to take the bicycle or public transportation.;)

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

My post is inaccurate.The dispatcher asked hm why he couldn't shift to neutral,not shut it down.
I say this guy is a complete dumb shit,he's upside down and has a bad case of buyers remorse,or this was plotted against Toyota.
He was cruising at 90 for 30 minutes and couldn't figure how to stop the vehicle? I don't think so.If he was pushing on the brakes as hard and as long as he claimed,the brakes would have completely faded away.Emergency brake? If the PARK brake was pulled hard,he would have lost control of the car.he said he didn't want to shift to neutral because he was afraid the car would flip.

How about the house keeper that crashed the one in NY.ya think she used the stuck throttle as an excuse? I do.

Toyota is in deep trouble over this stuck throttle issue.The news I saw today said they have 3 billion dollars of pending suits.

Now they've recalled trucks for rotting frames.

[MYCAR47562]

Im Afraid Toyota Might Be Done For, I Like Toyota's They Were The First Cars I Was Ever Paid To Work On. Their Quality Was Always Great Back In 05-07 But Who Knows Might Have Just Been Hiding The Cancer

[MYCAR47562]

My post is inaccurate.The dispatcher asked hm why he couldn't shift to neutral,not shut it down.
I say this guy is a complete dumb shit,he's upside down and has a bad case of buyers remorse,or this was plotted against Toyota.
He was cruising at 90 for 30 minutes and couldn't figure how to stop the vehicle? I don't think so.If he was pushing on the brakes as hard and as long as he claimed,the brakes would have completely faded away.Emergency brake? If the PARK brake was pulled hard,he would have lost control of the car.he said he didn't want to shift to neutral because he was afraid the car would flip.

How about the house keeper that crashed the one in NY.ya think she used the stuck throttle as an excuse? I do.

Toyota is in deep trouble over this stuck throttle issue.The news I saw today said they have 3 billion dollars of pending suits.

Now they've recalled trucks for rotting frames.

I TESTED THIS ON MY MUCH LARGER AND MUCH MORE POWERFUL DODGE RAM 1500 WITH 20 INCH RIMS, AND AT A STARTING PACE OF 50 I WENT FULL THROTTLE I LET THE ENGING GET WOUND UP TO ABOUT 75 WHICH IS HIGH SECOND GEAR. THEN I STARTED PRESSING THE BRAKE WHILE HOLDING IT TO THE FLOOR BY ABOUT .25 BRAKE PEDAL THE TRUCK WAS SLOING DOWN BY .75 IT WAS STOPPING.

THESE PRIUS'S USE SMALLER BRAKES THEN MINE I UNDERSTAND BUT I HAVE ABOUT 20 POUNDS MORE PER TIRE TO SLOW DOWN ALSO PLUS A HELL OF ALOT MORE MOTOR. I GUESS IN CONCLUSION I HAVE TO SAY THIS GUY IS FULL OF IT

[Max]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589090,00.html :) seems others doubt the story as well.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

Don't forget,there is also regenerative braking in a Prius.