Change?

[Wag]

Hello, For those who think this is a new dawn,i really dont know why. Its always the same,well it varies a bit but theres the same lump of money. Even if he makes half of you happy, the other half wont be,and i didnt care who won.It would be great to be proved wrong, but contentment comes from within anyway.
youll still have your trailer trash,gangs,and theres always going to be bad people .from England

["shazbat"]

Oh geez, if I hear "Change" one more time I think I will just puke.
I would comment that "be careful what you wish for, you may get it", but then you have.
Change for the sake of change is both naive and irresponsible.
All I've heard or seen thus far is flashy rhetoric without any substance or record to back it up.
Just an observation.

[Engels]

Change for the sake of change is both naive and irresponsible..

Change because the country is in an unpopular and expensive foreign war; the economy is in the worst crisis in a generation; and our international reputation (with our allies) is in tatters? Seems like a pretty good idea to me and, apparently, to 60+ million of your fellow citizens.

Here is a suggestion - one which I'm pretty sure will be ignored - but here goes:

Why not take a cue from Senator McCain: It was a tough, hard-fought election. But its over now, and Barack Obama is going to be our President. Nothing said here is going to change that.

Why not give the guy the benefit of the doubt? If, in the coming weeks, he nominates someone for high office who you judge to be incompetent or dishonest - call him on that. If Obama makes some new policy proposal that you feel is "Socialistic" or weak on terrorists - then share your thoughts on that too. But all these arguments about "Communism" or "palling around with terrorists" or "secret Muslim antichrist" have been made. And the people have spoken: The majority didn't buy them. We live in a Democracy, and sometimes that means living with a result you're not happy with.

Ask yourself this: Do you want Obama to fail as President? Because if he does fail - then it means our country is going to be even worse off than it is already. And wishing for that really doesn't strike me as being particularly patriotic.

If you folks want to turn this into a motorcycle-club/discussion group for right-wing malcontents - thats your choice. But at least have the good grace to quit insulting the intelligence of that fraction of your fellow citizens who voted differently than you did.

[dmlkm]

If you folks want to turn this into a motorcycle-club/discussion group for right-wing malcontents - thats your choice. But at least have the good grace to quit insulting the intelligence of that fraction of your fellow citizens who voted differently than you did.

Why? Unlike motorcycle groups, there should be free political speech here. I would think this shouldn't become a politically correct think tank website.

[Engels]

Why? Unlike motorcycle groups, there should be free political speech here..

I didn't say otherwise (that whole bit about "its your choice") - but I will tell you this: A discussion about politics really needs two sides. And if the "conservative" (I can't really come up with a better term for it than that) side has really got nothing better to offer than the same old recycled rumors and lies that got trotted out during the election - then I doubt you'll find too many intelligent people of opposing views wasting their time here.

I can't say that I'm going to offer "balanced" opinion. But I'm not going to resort to smears, lies, and insults to my opponents candidates or politicians. John McCain is a good, decent, hardworking politician. I chose not to vote for him because a) I didn't think his tax policies were right for our country right now; b) I thought his VP selection was woefully unqualified; and c) perhaps unfairly I believe 72 is too old to be starting a first term in the White House. I don't care how many cars or houses he has, or that he got divorced from his first wife, or that twenty-something years ago he got involved with a banker and real estate developer who ended up going to prison for fraud.

This site has seen a boost of actvity since the election. Good. But in the six months or so previously it has been dead as a crypt. If you want to have reasoned, informed, and interesting discussions (as opposed to endless rehashing of smears and rumors) the choice is up to you.

[gtrman66]

...b) I thought his VP selection was woefully unqualified...

I'm curious, what do think makes Palin unqualified to be VP? In my opinion, she had much more "leadership" experience. GWB, Clinton, Regan... were all former governors. So, she only had 2 years as a governor. What "leadership" did BO have? Not even a full term US Senator? What makes him qualified to lead a nation?

This is not a flame, just an actual point to discuss.

[Engels]

There has been a river of ink, both digital and otherwise, spilled on Palin's lack of qualification for the job of VP. But to sum up my reasons:

1) She has never spoken or written in detail about what her Governing philosophy would be, other than a repetition of a (newfound, I guess) opposition to Earmarks.

2) Not to denigrate Alaska's electoral process, but she ascended to the Governorship in a very sparsely populated, heavily Republican state by running on an "anti-corruption" platform. Despite this, Palin appears to have a somewhat hazy understanding of the proper separation between Public and Private funds amd actions. In particular I found her use of a personal e-mail account to conduct state business (presumably to circumvent open records laws); her and her husband's pursuit of a personal quarrel (the "Troopergate" issue); her billing the State for her children's travel; her accepting of several thousand dollars in "per diem" expenses (and then not paying tax on them) for nights spent in her own home, all to be indications of, if not outright dishonesty, then at least a poor understanding of ethical behavior on the part of elected officials.

3) She also has repeatedly demonstrated a poor understanding of the basic tenets of our Constitution. Her words about the Vice President "running the Senate" and "forming legislation" may have been simply mis-spoken - but they don't exactly engender confidence. Likewise her request, as newly elected Mayor of Wasilla, that the Librarian pull certain books strikes me as strange for someone with a Journalism degree. She further exhibited an unusual take on the First Amendment by complaining that press criticism of her was somehow infringing upon her First Amendment rights. (Frankly, she got that one completely backwards.)

4) From her very first run at political office (Mayor of Wasilla) she injected partisan "wedge issues" into her political campaigns. She campaigned as "Wasillas first Christian Mayor" - despite the fact that her opponent was in fact a practicing Christian.

5) Her performance during the Britt Hume and Katie Couric interviews left me with the distinct impression she did not have the necessary understanding of world or national affairs.

6) Her refusal, or the McCain campaign's refusal, to have a proper news conference for her to answer unscripted questions again failed to engender any confidence in the woman's ability to handle what would be, without question, one of the most important duties she would have had to face if she were to become President.

7) When she first ran for Mayor of Wasilla, she campaigned on the promise to cut her own pay. Once in office, she did in fact cut her pay by approximately $8000 per year. Good enough. But as it turned out, Palin was incapable of actually administering the Mayor's office. Wasilla was then forced to hire, for the first time ever, a paid City Administrator, for a salary of approximately $50,000 per year. Taxpayers didn't come out so well on that one.

8) Her repeated claims of opposing the "Bridge to Nowhere" on the campaign trail in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, suggests to me a cynicism unbecoming a national politician. All politicians fudge the truth a little, or exagerate to make a point. But to keep on making the same patently false assertion after being confronted with the truth suggests to me that she doesn't think her supporters care much about facts.

I could literally go on for pages. Palin obviously had her supporters around the country. If she should decide to run for national office in 2012 then she will have to win a series of primaries against other Republican politicians. We'll see how well she does then. Or, I guess she could appoint herself to newly-convicted Senator Ted Stevens post, which could well mark the first helicopter-rifle shot* in the 2012 Presidential race. I can't wait.




*I didn't coin this, I read it this morning. And roared with laughter after a night of tears of joy.

[vrodderD]

I think you are being naive, Engles. In one breathe you say "why not give him the benefit of the doubt" and the next you call everyone right wingers, etc etc. for having doubt in the first place.

Did the majority of left wingers give W a chance in either term? I don't think so. I will give the benefit of the doubt that we will see the same degree of one sided rule, uncontrolled spending congress and elitist attitudes from the left that the Republicans demonstrated the past 8 years, with the exception that the economic engine of the country will bled for all its worth to pay for the social programs that the Dem's propose. That money being spent over in Iraq isn't magically going to appear again in the treasury, it will be spent. You can bank on it. No politician will give it up, either Republican or Democrat.

[Ghost]

I'm curious, what do think makes Palin unqualified to be VP? In my opinion, she had much more "leadership" experience. GWB, Clinton, Regan... were all former governors. So, she only had 2 years as a governor. What "leadership" did BO have? Not even a full term US Senator? What makes him qualified to lead a nation?

This is not a flame, just an actual point to discuss.

I am not sure of her qualifications but her own party has been all over the airwaves today saying that she's a diva and cost McCain large amounts of votes. I don't know if that relates directly to her being qualified or not, simply FYI.

["shazbat"]

But at least have the good grace to quit insulting the intelligence of that fraction of your fellow citizens who voted differently than you did.

The intelligence of the fellow masses is yet to be proved.

[Ghost]

The intelligence of the fellow masses is yet to be proved.

And we all know that the masses 8 years ago did a fantastic job.

["shazbat"]

And we all know that the masses 8 years ago did a fantastic job.

Yes they did, NOT.
History will be written to show that "W" was a moron. Didn't vote for him BTW, nor would I have. Didn't like the smirky spoiled brat look of him, nor come to think of it his lack of record either.
My instincts have proved pretty true thus far, I think I'll stick with them.
I'm willing to give any man his due, just haven't seen anything worthy of consideration from either.

[Engels]

More on Palin's total lack of qualification to be VP: Check out the Fox News discussion between Fox reporter Carl Cameron and Shepherd Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc). Among the revelations (ha ha!): Palin didn't know that Africa was a continent; and that she managed to not know the countries in NAFTA (hint - there are only three of them.)

I am far from a fan of Fox News. But I give them credit for reporting this.

Among the more disturbing information: Palin refused coaching prior to the Katie Couric interview.

Thats it for me on Palin. If she's smart, she'll go back to Alaska, serve out her term, and maybe get a well paying talk radio gig on the EIB.

But if she is so delusional as to think she is in any way qualified to take on national office in the future - she fully deserves the roasting she'll get.

[The G]

Palin was brought on board to energize the conservative base and to get the female vote that Clinton left when she didn't get nominated.

My opinion.......... she was pimped.

[MYCAR47562]

kinda sounds to me like a female version of biden, if your truely honest you could see alot of similarity's

[gtrman66]

Palin was brought on board to energize the conservative base and to get the female vote that Clinton left when she didn't get nominated.

My opinion.......... she was pimped.

I agree.

I want to go back through the list. Some points are valid and some are way off base and disproven. I got busy here at work, so I don't have as much time. Maybe over the weekend. Don't let me forget.

[gtrman66]

kinda sounds to me like a female version of biden, if your truely honest you could see alot of similarity's

Exactly... and he has 35 years of "experience".

[MYCAR47562]

palin has 36's

[Ghost]

kinda sounds to me like a female version of biden, if your truely honest you could see alot of similarity's

Was this an intentional joke?????? You can't be serious can ya??? Palin "saw foreign countries from my window". Biden has been involved in the settlement of potential international catastraphes, hell even hardcore Republicans will tell ya that, wow.

[MYCAR47562]

first off i would be very willing to take a look out her window, second no im not you try and pull all of her skelotons out most all have been proven false. but there remains some not like clothing but i bet if you audited the obama campaign you would find a whole lot more than that was spent on that horse obama is married to. so how about instead of looking at the mistakes palin made in her speaches why dont you look all around and you will find a whole lot of biden "opps" out there. i never once said he wasnt a good politcian, personally someone who screws up and saw the wrong thing every once in a while shows me that they dont just recite speaches, but accually mean what they are saying.

[dmlkm]

Wow, you guys type a lot. Too much for me to read :).

[MYCAR47562]

ah come on its small

[vrodderD]

More on Palin's total lack of qualification to be VP: Check out the Fox News discussion between Fox reporter Carl Cameron and Shepherd Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc). Among the revelations (ha ha!): Palin didn't know that Africa was a continent; and that she managed to not know the countries in NAFTA (hint - there are only three of them.)

I am far from a fan of Fox News. But I give them credit for reporting this.

Among the more disturbing information: Palin refused coaching prior to the Katie Couric interview.

Thats it for me on Palin. If she's smart, she'll go back to Alaska, serve out her term, and maybe get a well paying talk radio gig on the EIB.

But if she is so delusional as to think she is in any way qualified to take on national office in the future - she fully deserves the roasting she'll get.

Not throwing stones at ya bro, but I fail to see this argument about Palin being inexperienced (she was just a governor of a small populace state) whereas Hussein Obama has no more (and really even less) experience.

Can you pontificate?

[The G]

Not throwing stones at ya bro, but I fail to see this argument about Palin being inexperienced (she was just a governor of a small populace state) whereas Hussein Obama has no more (and really even less) experience.

Can you pontificate?But he can get his point across :)

[Engels]

There is a tremendous difference between "experience" and "qualified."

I could give you Napoleon's famous quote on the artillery mule being "experienced" in all of his campaigns - but yet was still not fit to command a regiment of the guard.

Frankly I'm tired of talking about Palin. So instead I'll give you an example of another Governor who harbored Presidential ambitions.

Tommy Thompson was the Governor of Wisconsin. A Republican in a Democratic-leaning State he was, by virtually all measures, a succesful Governor. He served an unprecedented four terms from 1987 till 2001, and instituted model welfare reform and school choice programs. He generally ran balanced budgets, and was locally very popular and well regarded.

In 2001 he left Wisconsin to serve as Secretary of Health & Human Services in George W. Bush's first administration. His service there was acceptable, save for some minor now-forgotten verbal gaffes.

In 2006 Thompson announced his intention to run for President, formed an exploratory committee, and entered the Iowa straw poll - where he finished a dismal sixth, with just 7% of the vote. Thompson dropped out of the Presidential race shortly afterwards.

Thompson was by all measures a far more experienced, educated (he has a law degree, and attained the rank of Captain in the US Army), and accomplished Governor than Sarah Palin is right now. To my recollection there were never any questions regarding his ethical behavior. But he was a singularly uninspiring public speaker. He offered little or any vision as to what he would accomplish as President, he demonstrated little or any understanding of the world beyond his limited horizons (State Government) and as a result his ambitions for that office disappeared from sight.

To sum up: Thompson was an excellent Governor. But he would have been a dreadful President.

[vrodderD]

.

To sum up: Thompson was an excellent Governor. But he would have been a dreadful President.

I hear ya. Kind of like Jimmy Carter. Good Governor but lousy president. Ok, I see your point, even if I don't agree with you. Not here to make enemies.

Great orators make good presidents. Like FDR, Reagan, Clinton. As long as you are electable, your qualified. I like Joe Biden even though I have serious disagreements with his positions. But he seems like a great guy to have a beer with.

[gtrman66]

I had a break in between meetings today.


1) She has never spoken or written in detail about what her Governing philosophy would be, other than a repetition of a (newfound, I guess) opposition to Earmarks.

I blame that on her McCain Handlers. It remains to be seen what her plans would have been. As an engineer with a Green Belt in Lean/Six Sigma, I completely understand when she uses the term “efficiencies”. There is a lot of fat to be trimmed on the federal level. It takes someone completely disconnected from the system to go in and be the cold hearted axe-man (or woman) to end the non-essential jobs.


2) Not to denigrate Alaska's electoral process, but she ascended to the Governorship in a very sparsely populated, heavily Republican state by running on an "anti-corruption" platform. Despite this, Palin appears to have a somewhat hazy understanding of the proper separation between Public and Private funds amd actions. In particular I found her use of a personal e-mail account to conduct state business (presumably to circumvent open records laws); her and her husband's pursuit of a personal quarrel (the "Troopergate" issue); her billing the State for her children's travel; her accepting of several thousand dollars in "per diem" expenses (and then not paying tax on them) for nights spent in her own home, all to be indications of, if not outright dishonesty, then at least a poor understanding of ethical behavior on the part of elected officials.

Biden’s from Delaware. About the same size population as Alaska. US Census, AK (2006) = 670,053. DE (2006) 853,476, ND has less than AK, so do we therefore eliminate the viability of any politician by population? Very lame argument, even from you Engels.
The emails, which were conveniently stolen by a Democratic politician’s son, proved to be innocuous. I mix my work account and Yahoo account all the time, depending on availability.
Troopergate was a non-issue.
She’s not the first (nor last) politician to bill the gov’t for family travel. Who’s paying for BO and entourage to trot around now? We are.
She chose to stay in her home rather than rack up bills from travel back and forth. It was significantly cheaper than the previous governors jet usage.



3) She also has repeatedly demonstrated a poor understanding of the basic tenets of our Constitution. Her words about the Vice President "running the Senate" and "forming legislation" may have been simply mis-spoken - but they don't exactly engender confidence. Likewise her request, as newly elected Mayor of Wasilla, that the Librarian pull certain books strikes me as strange for someone with a Journalism degree. She further exhibited an unusual take on the First Amendment by complaining that press criticism of her was somehow infringing upon her First Amendment rights. (Frankly, she got that one completely backwards.)

Actually the VP does run the senate. She got it right and Biden got it wrong. It just makes for a better story. Kind of like Dan Quayle and the Potato/Potatoe deal. It was on a flash card witten that way and technically was a correct spelling (although archaic).

Snopes.com debunked the library / book banning.

I haven’t seen the “infringing” story. Missed that one. You have a link?


4) From her very first run at political office (Mayor of Wasilla) she injected partisan "wedge issues" into her political campaigns. She campaigned as "Wasillas first Christian Mayor" - despite the fact that her opponent was in fact a practicing Christian.

Never heard that issue, but going to church doesn’t make you a practicing Christian any more than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger. What politician doesn’t use wedge issues? Get real.


5) Her performance during the Britt Hume and Katie Couric interviews left me with the distinct impression she did not have the necessary understanding of world or national affairs.

If I put you with Couric for 5 straight days… there will be some absolutely hilarious moments. That was a McCain handler blunder. No one had that kind of access to any other candidate in history.


6) Her refusal, or the McCain campaign's refusal, to have a proper news conference for her to answer unscripted questions again failed to engender any confidence in the woman's ability to handle what would be, without question, one of the most important duties she would have had to face if she were to become President.

What do you call the Couric affair?


7) When she first ran for Mayor of Wasilla, she campaigned on the promise to cut her own pay. Once in office, she did in fact cut her pay by approximately $8000 per year. Good enough. But as it turned out, Palin was incapable of actually administering the Mayor's office. Wasilla was then forced to hire, for the first time ever, a paid City Administrator, for a salary of approximately $50,000 per year. Taxpayers didn't come out so well on that one.

I haven’t researched, so I can’t comment.


8) Her repeated claims of opposing the "Bridge to Nowhere" on the campaign trail in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, suggests to me a cynicism unbecoming a national politician. All politicians fudge the truth a little, or exagerate to make a point. But to keep on making the same patently false assertion after being confronted with the truth suggests to me that she doesn't think her supporters care much about facts.

Yep, I agree, she blew that one big time. The claim BO and Biden made about “agreed 90%” and “100% of ads were negative” were false too, but they get a pass.


I could literally go on for pages. Palin obviously had her supporters around the country. If she should decide to run for national office in 2012 then she will have to win a series of primaries against other Republican politicians.

It will be interesting, but I don’t know if I would vote for her or not. I hope the Libertarian party has a viable candidate by then.

I really would like to see someone from big business come in and run the gov’t like a business rather than the scandal it has become.

[gtrman66]

...I like Joe Biden even though I have serious disagreements with his positions. But he seems like a great guy to have a beer with.

Remember when GWB ran against Gore and a national survey said more Americans would rather have a beer with GWB than Gore? Look what that got us. Although he is still better than what Gore would have been.

[vrodderD]

MSNBC..hardly a "right-wing" outfit.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj4VK9wVAi0

[Engels]

Snopes.com debunked the library / book banning..

If you read the Snopes article, it cites an Anchorage Daily News article which states:

WASILLA -- Back in 1996, when she first became mayor, Sarah Palin asked the city librarian if she would be all right with censoring library books should she be asked to do so.

According to news coverage at the time, the librarian said she would definitely not be all right with it. A few months later, the librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, got a letter from Palin telling her she was going to be fired. The censorship issue was not mentioned as a reason for the firing. The letter just said the new mayor felt Emmons didn't fully support her and had to go.

Emmons had been city librarian for seven years and was well liked. After a wave of public support for her, Palin relented and let Emmons keep her job.


Snopes does debunk the story of a list of books that actually were banned. But then thats not what I was claiming. I felt, and still do, that it is strange that a woman with a Degree in Journalism/Communications would have such a limited understanding of America's tradition of freedom of speech that she would even ask "hypothetically" a librarian to pull certain books from the library shelves. I'm pretty sure the books concerned weren't pornographic, or instructions on how to make bombs.

As far as using personal e-mail to conduct state business? While this may be acceptable in business, it definitely is a "no no" at pretty much any level of Government. For two reasons: Firstly, Local, State, and Federal law has requirements on freedom of information. If Government officials make a ruling or policy, the citizens are entitled to know how they came to that decision. Obviously, many such Government documents contain confidential information - in which case they are protected from public release by being Classified. But the documents themselves still belong to, and are controlled by, the Government. Which brings us to the second reason NOT to use personal e-mail accounts to conduct government business: The security on personal e-mail is very easily breached - as your example of the Democratic politician's son hacking illustrates. Government e-mail systems have far more elaborate security and firewalls than the sort of thing available on a Yahoo account. This is a very serious issue: During the summer both the Obama and McCain campaigns were contacted by the FBI and informed that their websites had been attacked by what was described as a "foreign entity (http://www.itworld.com/security/57272/report-foreign-entity-hacked-obama-mccain-pcs)."

Palin definitely was incorrect in saying the VP "runs the Senate." The Vice President has the title of "President pro tem" and is classed as the highest ranking member of that body. But this is for purposes of precedence (who gets to site in which chair, or the order in which they are introduced to foreign dignitaries.) Aside from a role in casting a vote in the event of a tie, the Vice President has no day to day role. The person who actually "runs the Senate" - in the sense of actually being in charge of what happens there - is the Senate Majority Leader.

Palin's claim of her First Amendment rights being threatened by the news media were made in a radio interview with Washington's WMAL-AM (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-fears-med.html).

"If [the media] convince enough voters that that is negative campaigning, for me to call Barack Obama out on his associations," Palin told host Chris Plante, "then I don't know what the future of our country would be in terms of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without fear of attacks by the mainstream media."

I leave it to you to to make sense of that.

["shazbat"]

I'm pretty sure the books concerned weren't pornographic, or instructions on how to make bombs.


Sounds like speculation, you can't know this.

Evidence shows that Palin is limited and less than perfect, leave it to the facts.

State what you believe or what you know to be true. We can all speculate anything about anyone, it doesn't make it so no matter how much we may want it to be.

[Engels]

Read the article. It clearly says:

'The books in the Wasilla Library collection were selected on the basis of national selection criteria for libraries of this size, and I would absolutely resist all efforts to ban books

I am quite sure that the national selection criteria for libraries of that size doesn't include a subscription to Hustler or The Anarchists Cookbook

["shazbat"]

What about the photography of Robert Mappletorpe?
Come on, I don't want to quibble. No specific books or volumes were mentioned nor asked to be removed.

You don't know, don't speculate. Simple guideline.
With that I can promise you I won't speculate about Obama, his wife, Biden or anyone else.
There's plenty enough to discuss without it.

[Wag]

Holy Holly ! first time ive looked back,my original point didnt last long, theres no point joining in with y'all, its never ending but just emphasises what i said about half of us wanting person .a. and half wanting person b.

..By the way i seem to be in the vast minority that acknowledge that mr obama isnt black, Whats that all about?
the best thing he can do EVER is make the point that he is half white.
its the fact that we use those absolute opposite words (black, white) which causes problems in the first place. Im a sort of beige colour and mr obama is light brown...in fact its probably the fact that a 'white' persons colour is so hard to define that makes us slip into 'black and white'

[MYCAR47562]

did you know ive heard quite a few people this weekend say @%$# obama because the first person he put in his cabinet was white. does this show us something

[gtrman66]

Getting back to "change". Is Rahm Emmanuel change?

He said Rahm is Hebrew for "F@@k you".
He said all Republicans can go "F@@k themselves".

Nice guy. Way to reach across the aisle there BO.

[Engels]

Of course its "Change."

Unlike someone I can think of, he didn't say it on the floor of the United States Senate (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-06-25-cheney-curse_x.htm).

[gtrman66]

If they both resort to foul language as a result of not having enough intelligence to summon up another word... then it is not change. It is the same ol', same ol'.

[Engels]

Strange.

We elect a President who can speak in uplifting, reasoned, and inspiring phrases, and he's damned for being an "elitist" and a "celebrity."

He choses a tough-speaking guy to run the White House (and mostly to keep the too-liberal wing of the Democrats in line) - and you curse him again.

There's just no pleasing some people.

[gtrman66]

I never said a word about BO, but without a teleprompter he sounds about as intelligent as an 8th grade slow learner. When I heard people say that he won the debates I tell them "the emporer has no clothes". People hear what they want. Like the campain volunteer who said "I don't have to worry about gas for my car or paying my motgage, because BO said if you take care of me, I'll take care of you". The next day she was upset because she was not paid to volunteer. Priceless.

[MYCAR47562]

Why The Hell Do People Care If Someone Curses Anymore Cursing Has Become A Accepted Part Of Our Lifes. Hell Even My Dad Says Ass Now, But He Believe Since Its In The Bible He Can.

[The G]

I never said a word about BO, but without a teleprompter he sounds about as intelligent as an 8th grade slow learner. When I heard people say that he won the debates I tell them "the emporer has no clothes". People hear what they want. Like the campain volunteer who said "I don't have to worry about gas for my car or paying my motgage, because BO said if you take care of me, I'll take care of you". The next day she was upset because she was not paid to volunteer. Priceless.

You must have missed GW talking on TV. Can you say short bus...... :rofl:

[Engels]

I never said a word about BO, but without a teleprompter he sounds about as intelligent as an 8th grade slow learner..

This whole line of arguing about Obama and the teleprompter is nonsense, promulgated by Rush Limbaugh. If Obama sometimes choses his words carefully it is because of his training as a lawyer, and his acute political knowledge that words do matter. You don't want to accidentally call someone a phony soldier (http://mediamatters.org/items/200709270010) - or (update) Actually drop the F-bomb on live television (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJIGP4je2hA)

If you watched him in his interview with Bill O'Reilly, I think you'd have a hard time sticking by any sort of position that Obama can't work in an unscripted environment. O'Reilly is perhaps the most confrontational interviewer working for any TV network. Obama didn't flinch, didn't get flustered, and pushed back at O'Reilly. O'Reilly didn't, and doesn't, agree with many of Obama's policies and philosophies. But he came away from the interview with respect for Obama. From his column (http://www.billoreilly.com/column?pid=24183):

The Barack Obama I witnessed is self-confident, determined and driven. He was acutely aware of his surroundings from the moment he entered the room. He looks you in the eye and touches your shoulder. He understands how to connect one-on-one.........After going mano-a-mano with Obama on television, I am also persuaded that he is a sincere guy-that he wants the best for all Americans. He's an ideologue, but not a blind one.

[gtrman66]

I haven't heard Rush in a few years. Is he still around? I thought I came up with the teleprompter stuff by myself.

I don't have cable, so I missed the O'Reilly interview. I'll check to see if they posted it online.

Self confidence, connecting one-on-one, sincerity.... those are not what it takes to be a great leader. Partially, but not even close to completely.

[MYCAR47562]

Before I Say This Im Not Saying Obama Is The Anti-christ But...

It Does Say He Will Sway A Nation, Im Guessing He Wont Do That By Lieing Will He?

[gtrman66]

He's now INVENTED the Office of President-Elect:
Obama Invents 'Office of the President-Elect'
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_president_elect_/2008/11/10/149643.html

snippet...
Conservative columnist Michelle Malkin wondered: “What other make-believe offices are they going to invent between now and Inauguration Day? I can’t ever recall in my lifetime any mention of such an office.”

Technically speaking, Obama may not even be the President-elect, according to the American Sentinel Web site.

“Megalomaniac Obama’s ego grows even more insufferable,” a weekend posting reads.

“Yes, he will be [president-elect]. But he’s not officially yet, until the Electoral College votes.

“The Constitution provides that on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December, electors convene in their respective state capitals. It’s then that they formally elect the President of the United States, based on the general election results.”

[MYCAR47562]

He's now INVENTED the Office of President-Elect:
Obama Invents 'Office of the President-Elect'
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_president_elect_/2008/11/10/149643.html

snippet...
Conservative columnist Michelle Malkin wondered: “What other make-believe offices are they going to invent between now and Inauguration Day? I can’t ever recall in my lifetime any mention of such an office.”

Technically speaking, Obama may not even be the President-elect, according to the American Sentinel Web site.

“Megalomaniac Obama’s ego grows even more insufferable,” a weekend posting reads.

“Yes, he will be [president-elect]. But he’s not officially yet, until the Electoral College votes.

“The Constitution provides that on the Monday after the second Wednesday in December, electors convene in their respective state capitals. It’s then that they formally elect the President of the United States, based on the general election results.”

I KNOW THIS REALLY CANT HAPPEN BUT I REALLY DONT WANT TO BE IN THIS COUNTRY IF SOME HOW MCCAIN WINS IT. THINK RODIE KING RIOTS WERE BAD.

[gtrman66]

Actually, the electrol college voted "their own way" several times...

http://www.fairvote.org/e_college/controversial.htm

Wouldn't that be "interesting" if it happened again?

[MYCAR47562]

Well If It Happens Again My Ass Is Getting My Guns And Heading For The Hills Everything Can Be Replaced But Me And My Family Ill Just Pull The Bike In The House And Hope It's Still There

[Engels]

He's now INVENTED the Office of President....

He's done nothing of the sort. Winning candidates have been referred to as "President Elect" since the founding of the Republic. And the Presidential Transition Act of 1963 provides that offices, communications services, and presidential transition funds are made available. The determination of who is the succesful candidate is made by the Administrator of the General Services Administration, even before the Electoral vote is certified.

From a practical matter, his opponent has conceded, the sitting President has recognized him as President-elect, and he has received congratulatory telephone calls from world leaders. He is receiving daily intelligence briefings, and Secret Service protection.

What would the American people say if he held interviews in the doorway of his house, wearing sweats, and saying "Back off man - I'm not doin' nothin' till they certify my job"? He has an office, he is the President-elect - what are they supposed to put on the podium?

Despite all this, Obama has made it absolutely clear that we have only one President at a time, and that until January 20, George W. Bush is the nation's President.

I would seriously recommend AGAINST anyone getting their news from an organization like Newsmax. I would hestitate to recommend Fox News to anyone, but of the conservative-leaning media they at least have legitimate reporters, fact-checkers, qualified editors, and a standards-and-practices office.

The "writer" Larry Anderson cited in the NewsMax article does not write for any national newspaper or newsmagazine - in fact he is just some dude who writes free (and overpriced at that) articles for distribution in weekly shoppers and websites.

***Update***
Michelle Malkin, the alleged human being who wrote the piece of witless misinformation that sub-basement quality smear factory NewsMax passed on to its readers, has updated her blog to reflect an comment received from one of her readers, "Patrick" who refers her to the 1963 Presidential Transition Act I mentioned earlier. This, of course specifically explains the legal and procedural rationale behind the whole "Office of the President-Elect" thing. Of course, Michelle still manages to have a snit about the use of a dot-gov domain (obviously something not anticipated in 1963) as a feeble attempt to cover her dimwitted ass.

You begin to realize what a quality journalist you are working with when you have to rely on your own readers to provide basic fact-checking on the entire premise of your article. Michelle is fond of citing Wikipedia for her research - something she obviously didn't do when she scrawled this idiotic piece of nonsense.

[gtrman66]

If you look closely, you can see Engels half way through this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3_95F5e-Ac

Anyways, the electoral college can do whatever they want... I just thought, what if? (insert evil laugh here).

[Engels]

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/11/11/tomo/story.jpg

Jus' sayin'...

[The G]

Engels some people will think thats true. :)

[MYCAR47562]

i wonder how many votes he has been on since being elected? im willing to bet he is just doing the same thing "PRESENT"