What do you think -- is healthcare cram-down going to happen?

[Remphoto]

The pundits are all over the board about whether the Dems will be able to get the healthcare cram-down done. I am betting they will -- Stupak and his cohorts are Dems and will roll-over when the roll is taken. Leadership might throw them a promise to do something about abortion after the fact (which will never happen). This will give them cover to approve the Senate bill.

[Jeb]

YES They will pay a huge price but they have allowed BHO to build Mt Rushmore on this one centerpiece issue with Amnesty and card check to be his hat trick! It will happen!

[Remphoto]

YES They will pay a huge price but they have allowed BHO to build Mt Rushmore on this one centerpiece issue with Amnesty and card check to be his hat trick! It will happen!

He might get through healthcare, but he'll be a lame duck president after that. He will lose control of the House and probably the Senate, so don't think he will have the votes for further mischief.

[HoldHard]

Dems look to health vote without abortion foes

Mar 11, 4:01 PM (ET)

By ERICA WERNER

WASHINGTON (AP) - House leaders have concluded they cannot change a divisive abortion provision in President Barack Obama's health care bill and will try to pass the sweeping legislation without the support of ardent anti-abortion Democrats.

A break on abortion would remove a major obstacle for Democratic leaders in the final throes of a yearlong effort to change health care in the United States. But it sets up a risky strategy of trying to round up enough Democrats to overcome, not appease, a small but possibly decisive group of Democratic lawmakers in the House.

Democratic leaders are working to rally rank-and-file members around last-minute agreements on several sticking points, health insurance taxes and prescription drug coverage among them, and dozens of other complicated issues - all as Republicans stand ready to oppose the overhaul en masse.

"We will finish the job," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., wrote in a letter to his Republican counterpart describing the path ahead.

Said Sen. Tom Harkin, D-Iowa: "The stars are aligning for victory on comprehensive health reform. The end is in sight."

Democratic Rep. Henry Waxman of California, chairman of the Energy and Commerce Committee, said the leadership will press ahead without reworking the abortion provision, which opponents say falls short in restricting taxpayer dollars for abortion coverage. He predicted some of the anti-abortion lawmakers in the party will end up voting for the overhaul anyway.

One point on which Obama may not get his way is the White House demand for a vote by March 18, a week away. Speaking to reporters after Democrats met for a status report on the emerging health care agreements, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi called the deadline merely "an interesting date."

Before a vote, Pelosi, D-Calif., said lawmakers must first receive a cost report from the Congressional Budget Office on changes to the bill being worked out among the White House and Democratic congressional leaders. After that, it could be a week or more before the legislation goes to the floor.

House Democrats were meeting behind closed doors Thursday to hear a point-by-point briefing on the latest health care compromise from White House health reform director Nancy Ann DeParle. Pelosi asked the members whether they wanted to vote sooner rather than later. They responded with a broad shout of "Yes!" according to lawmakers coming out of the session.

It will come down to a phenomenal effort by congressional leaders and the White House to win over skittish lawmakers after a year of incendiary debate, even as Obama keeps up campaign-style appearances designed to fire up public support.

At stake is the fate of the president's call to expand health care to some 30 million people who lack insurance and to prohibit insurance company practices such as denial of coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions. Almost every American would be affected by the legislation, which would change the ways many people receive and pay for health care, from the most routine checkup to the most expensive, lifesaving treatment.

White House officials and congressional Democratic leaders met Wednesday evening in Pelosi's office. Aides said they agreed on scaling back a health insurance tax that unions oppose, and on gradually closing the Medicare prescription drug coverage gap. They were not far apart on other major issues, including Medicaid financing for states that already provide above-average benefits, and on improving subsidies that would be available under the plan to help individuals and families pay their premiums.

Several Democrats expressed frustration, however, with the absence of cost estimates from the Congressional Budget Office on the latest provisions. They want to ensure the total price tag stays around $950 billion over 10 years.

Those costs would be covered through a combination of Medicare cuts and tax increases. Among the new levies, the Medicare payroll tax would be applied to the investment earnings of upper-income people, including proceeds from capital gains. Until now, the tax has solely been levied on wages.

In a bit of bookkeeping, the Congressional Budget Office on Thursday released its final cost estimates for the bill the Senate passed on Christmas Eve. That 10-year, $875 billion plan would reduce the federal deficit and cover 31 million people who'd otherwise be uninsured. The Senate bill is the foundation of the proposal that Obama wants Congress to pass in the next few weeks. But the numbers will change yet again with the new version.

Obama invited members of the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus to meet him Thursday at the White House to discuss the health legislation.

House and Senate Democrats are working on a complex rescue mission for the health care legislation, which appeared on the cusp of passage late last year before Senate Republicans gained the strength to sustain a filibuster that could prevent final passage. The White House is pushing for a vote by the House before Obama leaves on a foreign trip at the end of next week.

The current plan is for the House to approve the Senate-passed bill from late last year, despite serious objections to numerous provisions. Both houses then would pass a second bill immediately, making changes in the first measure before both could take effect. The second bill would be debated under rules that bar a filibuster, meaning it could clear by majority vote in the Senate without Democrats needing the 60-vote supermajority now beyond their reach.

That strategy would leave in place the Senate language on abortion. It would allow health plans receiving federal subsidies in a new insurance marketplace to cover abortion, provided they pay for it only with money collected from policyholders. The House bill would have prohibited health plans receiving subsidies from covering abortions.

Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., has been pushing for the stricter House provisions, saying that he and a dozen or so abortion opponents would vote against the health care bill if the Senate language is retained. But the leadership appears to be moving to call his bluff.

Republicans have vowed to do everything they can to thwart the plan, and for the Democrats, some policy questions remain unsettled.

Obama already has moved to eliminate a couple of special deals in the Senate bill that turned off voters when they became public, including extra Medicaid money for Nebraska - derided by critics as the "Cornhusker kickback." Late Wednesday the White House said the president was pushing to strip out a number of deals that remain, possibly including a provision sought by Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., providing Medicare coverage for residents of Libby, Mont., who suffer from asbestos-related illnesses because of a now-closed mining operation.

Politico first reported the list.

Link (http://www.thefoxnation.com/health-care/2010/03/11/pelosi-gives-stupak-pro-life-democrats)

So the short version of the Healthcare Bill as I understand it is:
1) If you work, your taxes will go up, now.
2) If your employer provides your families healthcare, the cost of the coverage will go up, now. This will of course be passed on to you, right now.
3) The government will collect the money, now.
4) The government will be providing healthcare to the 30 million uncovered people (no, you don't have to be a citizen, you can be an "undocumented alien") and be providing abortions.
5) The plan kicks in TWO YEARS FROM NOW in 2012, the election year.

Maybe the American people will get up off their collective asses and do what the Greeks are doing....

HH

[Remphoto]

Interesting article HH. Not sure how pelosi can get the votes without Stupak and company. She probably had a few extra votes she held back in the previous vote but she has lost several former Yes votes due to death and resignation. Also some of her former Yes votes might now balk after what has happened in NJ VA and MA. Great political theater.

[Motive]

My question is, will we be able to undo it, once it's happened and we flip the house?

[Remphoto]

My question is, will we be able to undo it, once it's happened and we flip the house?

I'm not sure it could be done completely. Once an entitlement goes into effect it can only get larger. It will give the Reps. something to run on, though (reversing it).

Michael Barone had an interesting article on how Pelosi hasn't the votes without the Stupak votes:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703701004575113292688090292.html?K EYWORDS=barone

[Remphoto]

I just loved this comment by Pelosi -- perhaps her stupidest (and that's saying something):

"We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."

[Jeb]

He might get through healthcare, but he'll be a lame duck president after that. He will lose control of the House and probably the Senate, so don't think he will have the votes for further mischief.

You are sooo right Rem...he will lose (and you can quote me) both the house and the senate; but they know that now as 2 dem pollsters like (Patrick H. Caddell is a political commentator and former pollster. Douglas E. Schoen, a pollster, is the author of "The Political Fix.") both are warning Dems that it is political suicide!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/11/AR2010031102904.html

They don't care at the communist BHO admin, as it is the endgame that concerns them, and that is the redistribution of weath to "the rightful owners", which they consider themselves and minorities and others "wronged in the past" peoples!!:eek::gun:
They also consider this an entitlement that can't be reversed! Name one entitlement that has ever cost what it was projected to cost or that has ever been ended!! We are in a war for our very survival and in the words of our friend 'coolbreeze' "we may have a revolution"[ to stop this crap!]
I am started to agree!! They will go for amnesty and cardcheck and they will do so before they are voted out of power! Even GWB and McLame went for amnesty at their own peril...did they not?:gun:

[coolbreeze]

My question is, will we be able to undo it, once it's happened and we flip the house?

The short answer is No. But that's not where the danger to our republic lies.

A fact mostly being overlooked by the media is that this bill will not only allow the government to takeover and control 17% of our economy, but that this bill unleashes far reaching powers controlled by the president, and his appointees over a broad spectrum of boards, and panels, and including DHS, HHS, CDC, and labor. Mostly left wingers (some radicals) will oversee and control this scheme. This senate bill is a work in progress that would allow an ongoing transformation to happen to the country all without oversight from congress. This is why the democrats will willingly commit political suicide. It's for the power. If they get it, forget it. It's over. And you've seen first hand they will kill their futures to gain this power against the almighty will of the people. They are still showing they will do whatever it takes to orchestrate this takeover.

Americans have awoken to that this isn't about healthcare. It's about a takeover of America by a radical marxist community organizer who has a vision. His vision is to fundamentally transform America into a socialized wasteland.

It must be stopped, I believe it will be stopped.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

t
Americans have awoken to that this isn't about healthcare. It's about a takeover of America by a radical marxist community organizer who has a vision. His vision is to fundamentally transform America into a socialized wasteland.

It must be stopped, I believe it will be stopped.

No matter how awake most Americans have become,most Americans will throw down and put their hands in the air before they ever sight in on the enemy.Most Americans are chicken shit scared people that don't know how to properly care for themselves.
The people of this government know this,and use it against us as a whole.
For instance,vehicle registrations have doubled in Florida.When this happened,everyone I talked with said they were going to refuse payment.So far,of the ones I know that said this,all of them have paid the double fees.I have not renewed mine,because I doubt I'll be checked and if I do,I average a stop in one vehicle per year and the fine for out dated tag is cheap compared.
Look at the states that are holding the citizens income tax returns right now.No one will walk into a government office and demand their money,but let me not pay last quarters sales tax collections,the minimum fine is $50 and I still owe the tax that I collected plus another possible penalty.If I continue to refuse,I will be forcibly taken from my place of business at gun point and put in a jail.I will still owe the tax,fines and penalty when my sentence is over.
I doubt you could get 2% of registered voters to go against the government,because most people are scared to death of the word itself!

How in the hell can a President,any President start something like this and when his term is over,just walk away and let someone else deal with it.Don't we have any rules,regulations or laws to protect us from terrible plans like this health bill?
Why hasn't this guy been taken out yet?

[coolbreeze]

No matter how awake most Americans have become,most Americans will throw down and put their hands in the air before they ever sight in on the enemy.Most Americans are chicken shit scared people that don't know how to properly care for themselves.
The people of this government know this,and use it against us as a whole.
For instance,vehicle registrations have doubled in Florida.When this happened,everyone I talked with said they were going to refuse payment.So far,of the ones I know that said this,all of them have paid the double fees.I have not renewed mine,because I doubt I'll be checked and if I do,I average a stop in one vehicle per year and the fine for out dated tag is cheap compared.
Look at the states that are holding the citizens income tax returns right now.No one will walk into a government office and demand their money,but let me not pay last quarters sales tax collections,the minimum fine is $50 and I still owe the tax that I collected plus another possible penalty.If I continue to refuse,I will be forcibly taken from my place of business at gun point and put in a jail.I will still owe the tax,fines and penalty when my sentence is over.
I doubt you could get 2% of registered voters to go against the government,because most people are scared to death of the word itself!

How in the hell can a President,any President start something like this and when his term is over,just walk away and let someone else deal with it.Don't we have any rules,regulations or laws to protect us from terrible plans like this health bill?
Why hasn't this guy been taken out yet?

Al, very accurate sentiment, and you're right. Part of the reason you're right is that the majority of the population would rather be led then to lead, and many would even blindly follow their leader off a cliff which is what Oidiot would like. That being said, I believe there are masses of people that won't follow Oidiot off a cliff.
The beliefs, ideas, emotions, and worries we express here in cyberspace about Oidiot's plans are reflective of the mood of the Nation. The few of us here are not unique to the overwhelming wisdom currently sweeping our land.
I personally believe America isn't ready to surrender to the socialist transformation of America by a Marxist community organizer who deceives the people with creative speeches and a nice smile. As written in the bible, satan does sometimes appear as an angel of light. Not saying Oidiot is satan, but you get the drift.

As for your Florida taxes, that sucks. Vote the bastards out at the state level as well.

As far as your last comment, yeah I'll go there :), I don't believe any citizen will need to take him out, as Oidiot sowed his own fate when he ridiculed the Lord, and the Lord's words during his campaign. Oidiot in fact mocked the Lord. and since the Lord IS, in all His Supernatural Glory the Truly Awesome Power who breathed life into every single one of us, and who sustains us daily, Our Lord is not someone to mock. The Lord is going to deal with Him imho, and the Lord is capable of handling the task.

[Jeb]

I think you are half right Al! But the numbers of American that would and is capable of doing something is growing. If the political storm that is coming fails to change the nature of our politicians, well, our economy and the economies of the world are going to fail! 70,000,000 Americans own over 200,000,000 weapons that we know of! Our military is less than 3,000,000 members. The shit storm coming may have to happen to wake enough people up, and for families sake I hope and pray the ballot box suffixes for another 50 years! However, I am prepared ...how bout you Al?

[Motive]

Americans have awoken to that this isn't about healthcare. It's about a takeover of America by a radical marxist community organizer who has a vision. His vision is to fundamentally transform America into a socialized wasteland.

It must be stopped, I believe it will be stopped.

My only problem with this is...I still don't believe that we, the people are properly represented on this matter....it's now in the hands of "appointed" reps, that I don't truly feel, have our bests interests in mind...and the only thing I can do is write letters to my congressmen (who are strongly against it, and will vote against it) and hope that people in other districts do the same?

How many of these reps are willing to commit political suicide over this? and how can we stop them from doing it? It's like a congressional Jihad IMO.

[right$pecial]

Well...there's always "deem and pass".

[Max]

I honestly think the people of this country need to start thinking about national stop work days, stop tax days or some other form of message to send the government.

[right$pecial]

I honestly think the people of this country need to start thinking about national stop work days, stop tax days or some other form of message to send the government.

I agree with you Max. Everyone gets so worked up that they automatically start waiting for the "call to arms" when really all it would take is a financial protests as you mentioned to really get their attention. The problem is that it would take a lot of us in a combined effort otherwise the few who did it would find themselves at the bad end of the IRS's new shotguns. I could certainly see something to this effect becoming necessary at some point, as they've already shown their willingness to ignore picketed protests.

[Remphoto]

I know this sounds like a broken record but our only real power is at the ballot box. As much as I abhor the healthcare cram down and realize how hard it will be to reverse it, the voters are bound to be infuriated about the sneaky, sleazy way it was handled. The longer the Dems belly-crawl through the process, the more they expose themselves. This bodes well for the November elections. We need to support the good guys and do what we can to replace the bums.

[TaxmanHog]

I agree with Rem, but it might kinda fun to have several nation work stoppages, do like the frenchies do and block the interstate roads in all major cities, grid lock the economy for a few days straight .

[TaxmanHog]

After seeing Glen Becks program today, I am steamed that they will be using an underhanded measure to avoid their responsibility to legislate, if they choose the yellow bellied methods and abrogate their constitutional responsibilities, I equate it the TREASON, and the penalties for such should be executed!

[Remphoto]

I agree with Rem, but it might kinda fun to have several nation work stoppages, do like the frenchies do and block the interstate roads in all major cities, grid lock the economy for a few days straight .
Don't get me wrong. I like a nice demonstration and troublemaking but to copy the french way? We would just he cutting off our nose to spite our face. A biker rally at the capitol--now that would be fun. 1 million bikers circling the mall with open pipes would get some attention.

[MYCAR47562]

1 million bikers circling the mall with open pipes would get some attention.

IM IN, COURSE I RUN FORCE SHORTY'S SO NO NEED FOR ME TO ANYTHING TO MY EXHAUST.

[Motive]

As much as I'd love some days off to ride my bike around the White House, my bills don't afford me that kind of freedom. I'd actually have to use paid vacation days.

[Remphoto]

As much as I'd love some days off to ride my bike around the White House, my bills don't afford me that kind of freedom. I'd actually have to use paid vacation days.

Same here. Funny how certain groups always seem to have the time to launch a demonstration on a moment's notice.

[Motive]

The ones that want the government to pay their bills, of course.

[synseer]

only on MSNBC and CNN; Fox apparently doesn't debate the healthcare issue at all. :rofl :rofl

"CHRIS MATTHEWS: You know, you know on this network, on this network if you listen to this network, there's a lot of debate on MSNBC about this health care bill. Left versus center-left, whatever.

CHUCK TODD: Sure.

MATTHEWS: For it or against it, on all points. Same with CNN. But there's another network, Fox out there, where there's absolutely no debate. It's just trashed every single...has there ever been a bill in history before the Congress, where an entire network on television has blasted it every day for more than a year? That's kind of negative, negative - I just wonder whether we've ever seen anything like this?" :paper

Read the comments at the bottom...some of them are quite amusing.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/geoffrey-dickens/2010/03/16/matthews-unlike-msnbc-and-cnn-theres-absolutely-no-debate-fox-news

[Remphoto]

Matthews gets screwier each day. He is totally clueless. Even Fox's opinion shows like Hannity and O'Reilly have Lib guests like Schoen, Combs, Ferraro, Cadell,etc Funny that BHO is being interviewed on Fox tonight.

[synseer]

State going all out against it.

"Idaho Gov. C.L. "Butch" Otter is the first state chief executive to sign a measure requiring his attorney general to sue the federal government if Congress passes health care reform."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/17/idaho-state-sign-law-health-care-reform/

[coolbreeze]

I honestly think the people of this country need to start thinking about national stop work days, stop tax days or some other form of message to send the government.

If we were Poland, or even France, I might agree. More drastic action is needed then skipping work. This issue Obama and congress are really illegally and unconstitutionally forcing on America isn't about extending unemployment, giving congress a raise, or expanding the DoE. It's a fricking takeover of the country by Marxists, leftist radicals, communists and extreme sick whackos. You think taking off a day, or even a week or month of work will stop these anti-Americans? It won't. This bill goes through, don't be surprised if 2010 elections get delayed or postponed, and I'm not kidding. This is why this bill needs to be stopped now at all costs. This senate bill unleashes authoritarian powers that will cause the steamrolling over of America, it's institutions, and our constitution, our people and our precious way of life imho.

[TaxmanHog]

Any. Updates on what is happening?
I am on the bike downtown. Pvd right now!

[right$pecial]

Any. Updates on what is happening?
I am on the bike downtown. Pvd right now!

I've been lurking on the net trying to see if anything new unfolded. Evidently, some protests got staged today and the left is upset because the crowd acted louder and angrier than previous no-liberal protests. Gee, I wonder why they're pissed. Other than the above, nothing new to see until sometime Sunday. Maybe they'll put everyone under a gag order and they won't allow anyone to talk about the vote until after November...absolutely nothing surprises me anymore.

[TaxmanHog]

Looks like it's gonna happen 216/215 as they talk about in on FOX this morning, vote in the afternoon.

Anyone want a JOB working at the IRS???? :rofl :gun:

[Remphoto]

Looks like it's gonna happen 216/215 as they talk about in on FOX this morning, vote in the afternoon.

Anyone want a JOB working at the IRS???? :rofl :gun:

Afraid you are right, TM. They wouldn't be holding the vote unless they are pretty sure it will pass. Of course anything can happen.

Goes to show that despite all the lip service regarding representing the will of the people and being independent of hard-core party beliefs, "moderate" Dems are at heart party loyalists when the roll gets called. The voters who thought they were getting a kinder and gentler form of Democrat when they voted for these sleaze-balls have had their eyes opened. Just wait until news comes out about the secret bribes provided to buy the votes. November will be a bloodbath.

[Jeb]

The problem is the taxes on the premiums will start the minute this moron-in-chief signs it!

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

to the short future...........The bill is passed and we now have a national health care plan that was weaseled into affect in the same manner a hired lawyer beat 2 DUI's for me.
Is this it? No appeals or anything of the such to tie it up in a court for years?

I still can't find out what will happen to people like my wife and I that support ourselves with a good major medical insurance policy.Do we still have to pay for this communistic health plan?

With all of the large companys closing down just in the Florida alone,will there be enough people to financially support this new plan?
What is the Fed going to do about all the small and medium businesses that are going to cut perfectly good productive employees down to below 25 ?
I see a major cluster fuck in every aspect of employment and medical we deal with.

[Jeb]

to the short future...........The bill is passed and we now have a national health care plan that was weaseled into affect in the same manner a hired lawyer beat 2 DUI's for me.
Is this it? No appeals or anything of the such to tie it up in a court for years?

I still can't find out what will happen to people like my wife and I that support ourselves with a good major medical insurance policy.Do we still have to pay for this communistic health plan?

With all of the large companys closing down just in the Florida alone,will there be enough people to financially support this new plan?
What is the Fed going to do about all the small and medium businesses that are going to cut perfectly good productive employees down to below 25 ?
I see a major cluster fuck in every aspect of employment and medical we deal with.

There is only one way you can add millions of freeloaders to the system and that is the same way they did in Mass. Medicare! Those who pay premiums will pay more and the so-called poor will ride the gravy train! As in M**** it will cost 3 times what they project and services will become scarce as people will go in for every little sniffle and hang nail! Lawsuits will be filed!

[Remphoto]

Many doctors are threatening to retire or quit if this passes. Add to that millions of hangnail sufferers now covered by insurance. Availability of coverage will disintegrate. Welcome to the world of BHO health"care". We're down in San Antonio,Texas right now on a working vacation to again look at retirement housing options. Even though I'm not a doctor, I'll cut back my income before I let those skunks get their hands on any more of my money. Plus, if you can't beat them, then might as well join them and get my free health coverage, too.:D

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

I don't mind joining in if this is what we will have to deal with,but by the time it goes into effect,I'll be 58 or older,and so will my wife.We won't be prime 35 yo productive citizens anymore and we'll wind up w sloppy seconds when it comes to good health care.

When I was young,around 12 yo,I was scared to death of the IRS from listening to my Father bitch about it.The Viet Nam war bothered me too,but I've never felt as worried and confused about our country as I do now.

I was listening the other day that 1/3 of the medical professionals will leave the industry if this plan pans out as expected.This is going to leave an opened door for 2nd and 3rd world countrys that have citizens with a lesser IQ to move into the industry,same thing that is going to happen to the Space industry if and when India takes it over.
This presidential regime,specifically obama himself,does not have the United States morals and standards of what this country is and was made from.He considers the U.S. as just another country among many others in the world.He has proved this way of thought over and over.The latest proof is letting our Space program die,which is not only one of the greatest achievements of any country on this planet,but it employs appr 7000 people that will be out of jobs in the very near future.Not to mention all the other jobs that will be lost such as restaurants and retail business's that depend on these employees for their lively hood.
This regime does not think like an American should.I can't get a grip on how they think?

[Jeb]

I mind! I don't want to participate in a world where 26 year olds can get their parents to pay for their healthcare! God help us! I will not let this shit stand if I half to go into politics myself! Besides, their ain't going to be no retirement for none of us when the world economy collapses and wake up...that is the only option the public option leads too! Too many people in the boat for it to float us all! Ship will run a ground soon and if this passes all hell will break lose for these idiots! Take a look at the picture on Drudge right now, as they all walk toward their historic vote laughing at America!

[Jeb]

I don't mind joining in if this is what we will have to deal with,but by the time it goes into effect,I'll be 58 or older,and so will my wife.We won't be prime 35 yo productive citizens anymore and we'll wind up w sloppy seconds when it comes to good health care.

When I was young,around 12 yo,I was scared to death of the IRS from listening to my Father bitch about it.The Viet Nam war bothered me too,but I've never felt as worried and confused about our country as I do now.

I was listening the other day that 1/3 of the medical professionals will leave the industry if this plan pans out as expected.This is going to leave an opened door for 2nd and 3rd world countrys that have citizens with a lesser IQ to move into the industry,same thing that is going to happen to the Space industry if and when India takes it over.
This presidential regime,specifically obama himself,does not have the United States morals and standards of what this country is and was made from.He considers the U.S. as just another country among many others in the world.He has proved this way of thought over and over.The latest proof is letting our Space program die,which is not only one of the greatest achievements of any country on this planet,but it employs appr 7000 people that will be out of jobs in the very near future.Not to mention all the other jobs that will be lost such as restaurants and retail business's that depend on these employees for their lively hood.
This regime does not think like an American should.I can't get a grip on how they think?

Scared of Viet Nam? John Kerry was scary, Carter was scary, Bill Clinton was scary. BHO is horrific! War I understand...a bunch of Katrina type losers finding out the free lunch is all used up, now that is going to be interesting!:gun:

[right$pecial]

Scared of Viet Nam? John Kerry was scary, Carter was scary, Bill Clinton was scary. BHO is horrific! War I understand...a bunch of Katrina type losers finding out the free lunch is all used up, now that is going to be interesting!:gun:

Agreed. I admit that I was scared when I went to Iraqistan, but the idea of having no recognizable country to return home to would frighten me much more.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

Didn't say I was scared of Viet Nam,it bothered me and still does.I was scared of the IRS when I was a kid.

[MYCAR47562]

stupak crossed

[MYCAR47562]

is anyone else watching cspan?

[Jeb]

Stupak was always going to cross! There are no conservative blue dogs...just yellow welps!

[MYCAR47562]

john is really entertaining right now

[MYCAR47562]

Stupak was always going to cross! There are no conservative blue dogs...just yellow welps!

very true

[TaxmanHog]

is anyone else watching cspan?

Flipping back & forth during commercials, watching NAT GEO "INSIDE 9/11"

I am so pissed, watching them & watching the recounting of the events of that & this fateful day. :(

[TaxmanHog]

Also waiting for G & TT to log in VISIBLE to gloat over the historic day.

[MYCAR47562]

they will not log in visible they will slink in to say haha we beat you. all i have to say is i hope they don't realize what they want

[Remphoto]

Also waiting for G & TT to log in VISIBLE to gloat over the historic day.

You can count on it. Then they will flee back to lurking status rather than try to defend the sleazy, sneaky process used to ram this through. It will be our turn come November 2010.

[MYCAR47562]

i really can't stand this woman

[Remphoto]

i really can't stand this woman

I just said the same thing to the group of people sitting here watching this debacle. Unlike the socialist scum Pelosi, the people I am with are real American Patriots, earning their own living without government handouts. One of them is an Air Force Major who has fought for this country's freedoms. Pelosi isn't fit to shine the shoes of these people.

[MYCAR47562]

i believe it should be a right to have at least 3 ar-15's

[MYCAR47562]

and it begin

[MYCAR47562]

what is with all the not voting votes??

[Remphoto]

what is with all the not voting votes??

They'll get around to it.

[MYCAR47562]

well seems the snake has defeated the human race once again

[nelson]

Looks like it happened.

Unbelievable.

But with this group in Congress, I believe it.

What a waste of a government.

[MYCAR47562]

it is over

[Remphoto]

The executive order with which stupak was bribed cannot restrict fed funding of abortions beyond what is in the bill. Like judas stupak sold his soul for pieces of silver only this silver turned out to be crap. I suspect stupak knew this all along and just used the EO for cover. What a hypocrite.

[MYCAR47562]

I believe you are right about stupak, but i will also bet that he has very little cover because of this order

[synseer]

The executive order with which stupak was bribed cannot restrict fed funding of abortions beyond what is in the bill. Like judas stupak sold his soul for pieces of silver only this silver turned out to be crap. I suspect stupak knew this all along and just used the EO for cover. What a hypocrite.

If that was not the case, then he is truly an idiot.

[HoldHard]

So there were three patriots that accidently wandered into congress. It was a big deal, as they were in the middle of a secret meeting, and had disturbed the evil queen of skunk snatch. Nancy Pelosi stood and screamed at the top of her lungs "How dare you intrude on your betters. You will be punished". "Because we are benevolent rulers, I will grant you a choice of punishment, Death or Healthcare".

As she pointed her crooked skeletal finger towards the first man she croaked "You, what will you choose?" The patriot fearing death more than he loved liberty chose "Healthcare".

Immediately the house erupted into chants of "YAY HEALTHCARE, HEALTHCARE, HEALTHCARE". They all lined up and took turns ass raping the patriot who folded under pressure.

As the first patriot lay there with his ass bleeding, the witch of the hill with a wicked grin yelled at the second patriot "You, what will you choose?"

The second patriot, scared out of his mind whispered "I dont want Healthcare, but I sure don't want to die, so healthcare" with his head hung in shame.

Again the house erupted into chants of "YAY HEALTHCARE, HEALTHCARE, HEALTHCARE". Again they all lined up and took turns ass raping the patriot, but this time Barney Frank took lead position.

As the second patriot lay there with his ass bloody and ablaze, the frozen cunt laughed aloud and yelled to the third patriot "You, what will you choose?"

The third patriot said aloud immediately "I will choose death"

Immediately the house erupted into chants of "YAY Death by HEALTHCARE, Death by HEALTHCARE, Death by HEALTHCARE". They all lined up and took turns ass raping the patriot to death.

The moral of the story? We're focked if we don't do something.

HH

[MYCAR47562]

My Butthole Hurts Right Now

[synseer]

So there were three patriots that accidently wandered into congress. It was a big deal, as they were in the middle of a secret meeting, and had disturbed the evil queen of skunk snatch. Nancy Pelosi stood and screamed at the top of her lungs "How dare you intrude on your betters. You will be punished". "Because we are benevolent rulers, I will grant you a choice of punishment, Death or Healthcare".

As she pointed her crooked skeletal finger towards the first man she croaked "You, what will you choose?" The patriot fearing death more than he loved liberty chose "Healthcare".

Immediately the house erupted into chants of "YAY HEALTHCARE, HEALTHCARE, HEALTHCARE". They all lined up and took turns ass raping the patriot who folded under pressure.

As the first patriot lay there with his ass bleeding, the witch of the hill with a wicked grin yelled at the second patriot "You, what will you choose?"

The second patriot, scared out of his mind whispered "I dont want Healthcare, but I sure don't want to die, so healthcare" with his head hung in shame.

Again the house erupted into chants of "YAY HEALTHCARE, HEALTHCARE, HEALTHCARE". Again they all lined up and took turns ass raping the patriot, but this time Barney Frank took lead position.

As the second patriot lay there with his ass bloody and ablaze, the frozen cunt laughed aloud and yelled to the third patriot "You, what will you choose?"

The third patriot said aloud immediately "I will choose death"

Immediately the house erupted into chants of "YAY Death by HEALTHCARE, Death by HEALTHCARE, Death by HEALTHCARE". They all lined up and took turns ass raping the patriot to death.

The moral of the story? We're focked if we don't do something.

HH

Hahaha...that's pretty funny.

[gtrman66]

My "bosses" take... (listen to the reporters comment at the last 5 seconds)

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=289004&cl=18746582&src=finance&ch=4043681

[gtrman66]

Woohoooo... I LOVE TEXAS....
http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/health/032210-Texas-Will-Challenge-Health-Care-Overhaul-Abbott-Says

AUSTIN - Attorney General Greg Abbott says Texas and other states will legally challenge the federal health care legislation Congress has passed.

Abbott issued a statement late Sunday night after the U.S. House approved the measure. He said the legislation violates the U.S. Constitution and infringes upon Texans' individual liberties.

The bill passed by Congress is headed to President Barack Obama for his signature. House members voted 219-212 late Sunday to approve a health care overhaul that would extend coverage to 32 million uninsured Americans and make other changes to the nation's health care system.

Only House Democrats voted for the bill. Abbott is a Republican.

[MYCAR47562]

I Live In The Wrong State

[gtrman66]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100322/pl_nm/us_usa_healthcare_states

Ten of the attorneys general plan to band together in a collective lawsuit on behalf of Alabama, Florida, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.

"To protect all Texans' constitutional rights, preserve the constitutional framework intended by our nation's founders, and defend our state from further infringement by the federal government, the State of Texas and other states will legally challenge the federal health care legislation," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, in a statement.

[MYCAR47562]

Someone Said Something The Earlier That Had Me Stumped, "what's The Difference Between Healtchare And Auto Insurance"

[Remphoto]

Don't worry lucas, 35 other states including my Lib-controlled Ohio are also filing suits. This is a Fed power grab of epic proportions. The states will end up with the funding burden.

[Motive]

Looks like 35 states won't be getting federal funding for highways in the near future. I wonder how much the insurance companies are on board with this, and if they'll threaten to either not cover, or drastically raise premiums in these 35 states.

This will definitely gut check our Governors.

[synseer]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100322/pl_nm/us_usa_healthcare_states

Ten of the attorneys general plan to band together in a collective lawsuit on behalf of Alabama, Florida, Nebraska, North Dakota, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington.

"To protect all Texans' constitutional rights, preserve the constitutional framework intended by our nation's founders, and defend our state from further infringement by the federal government, the State of Texas and other states will legally challenge the federal health care legislation," said Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott, in a statement.

That is awesome!

[right$pecial]

Looks like 35 states won't be getting federal funding for highways in the near future. I wonder how much the insurance companies are on board with this, and if they'll threaten to either not cover, or drastically raise premiums in these 35 states.

This will definitely gut check our Governors.

No federal funding for highways, they say; no federal income tax, I say.

[Motive]

I'm with you on that, I believe TX can stand on it's own, we'll just have to wait and see how the cards fall.

[gtrman66]

Someone Said Something The Earlier That Had Me Stumped, "what's The Difference Between Healtchare And Auto Insurance"

Auto Insurance is not a federal mandate, it is state controlled. If you do not like your states policies, you can move. That was the intent of the founding fathers. We vote with our $'s and feet.

One extreme violation in place currently is social security. It is unconstitutional to force us into a federally run "retirement program". Unfortunately, no one seems to want to fight it. GWB ran on privatizing it, but was shot down.

[Motive]

I remember GWB mentioning something about that. I've been against the SS tax since I first started reading my pay stubs....along with Medicare tax.

[MYCAR47562]

Thanks Gator I Thought It Was Federally Mandated

[TaxmanHog]

No federal funding for highways, they say; no federal income tax, I say.

Actually the Federal Fuel Excise Taxes are what should be boycotted :gun:

[Jeb]

You don't have to drive! People don't have to buy car insurance if they have a DL. They can chose to do as millions already do and ride with someone else or ride mass transit or ride a bike or walk! This Healthcare with make a criminal out of anyone (not in a protected group) who fails to purchase health insurance. That is the biggest difference Mycar!

[right$pecial]

You don't have to drive! People don't have to buy car insurance if they have a DL. They can chose to do as millions already do and ride with someone else or ride mass transit or ride a bike or walk! This Healthcare with make a criminal out of anyone (not in a protected group) who fails to purchase health insurance. That is the biggest difference Mycar!

Let's not forget that in many cases, they've made it illegal(or essentially so) for docs to work on patients pro-bono even if they wanted to. It isn't illegal to get a ride with a friend...well except hitching I guess.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

With the new 3.8% tax on money market investments,quit a few people I know withdrew their money today.Just doesn't make good sense to have to pay 1 or 2 .8 percent to keep the investments.
Have you seen the new % for high income peoples capitol gains tax?
These taxes are proposed to go into affect immediately.
Some business's have already started cutting employees so they can get down to below 25 workers.
Looks like the shit is hitting the fan pretty quick.

My wife was taken out of her work today from a 911 call.She was transported to the closest hospital because it was her heart.After she was stabilized,the team that cares for her was contacted at Shands in Gville and everyone involved agreed she should be transported the 50 miles away to Shands,all at the insurance companys financial responsibility.The insurance company was involved in this before the decision was made and they agreed.
I wonder how this type situation will be handled in the future?Keep in mind,my wife is 54 yo and not a very productive tool for the government anymore.

[Remphoto]

My 58 YO wife has had serious health issues too and has same concern. The death panels will decide what tratments are allowable. An equal concern is the speed for diagnostics and treatment. Ask a Canadian or Brit about how screwed that is in their countries.

I'll keep your wife in my prayers, al.

[right$pecial]

With the new 3.8% tax on money market investments,quit a few people I know withdrew their money today.Just doesn't make good sense to have to pay 1 or 2 .8 percent to keep the investments.
Have you seen the new % for high income peoples capitol gains tax?
These taxes are proposed to go into affect immediately.
Some business's have already started cutting employees so they can get down to below 25 workers.
Looks like the shit is hitting the fan pretty quick.

My wife was taken out of her work today from a 911 call.She was transported to the closest hospital because it was her heart.After she was stabilized,the team that cares for her was contacted at Shands in Gville and everyone involved agreed she should be transported the 50 miles away to Shands,all at the insurance companys financial responsibility.The insurance company was involved in this before the decision was made and they agreed.
I wonder how this type situation will be handled in the future?Keep in mind,my wife is 54 yo and not a very productive tool for the government anymore.

Damn sorry to hear that, Al. I hope she recovers quickly.

[MYCAR47562]

Honestly In The Future I Could See Them Giving Her Some Bayers And Sending Her Home.

Ill Say A Prayer For Her Al

[Motive]

This Healthcare with make a criminal out of anyone (not in a protected group) who fails to purchase health insurance.

Doesn't that qualify as "unconstitutional"? But then again, since when has this administration cared about the Constitution.

"Protected Group"...aka the scumbags that passed this into law upon us, while exempting themselves from it?

Hope your wife feels better soon, Al.

[coolbreeze]

Doesn't that qualify as "unconstitutional"? But then again, since when has this administration cared about the Constitution.

"Protected Group"...aka the scumbags that passed this into law upon us, while exempting themselves from it?

Hope your wife feels better soon, Al.

Yes Motive you're right. It's unconstitutional with the madate to buy insurance under threat of fines and jail from the feds. Most of the 30 million newly insured are young people who choose not to have insurance. Now they will be forced to buy. This aspect of the plan is but one of many robberies of treasure from the people. Unions get a big cut, and power is dealt out to beauracrats and business like never before in history. This legislation has nothing whatsoever to do with healthcare. It's a power grab that extinguises freedoms, and a blueprint for a complete transformation to complete oppressive and socialised control by the government in the near future.

[TaxmanHog]

...
My wife was taken out of her work today from a 911 call.She was transported to the closest hospital because it was her heart.After she was stabilized,the team that cares for her was contacted at Shands in Gville and everyone involved agreed she should be transported the 50 miles away to Shands,all at the insurance companys financial responsibility.The insurance company was involved in this before the decision was made and they agreed.
I wonder how this type situation will be handled in the future?Keep in mind,my wife is 54 yo and not a very productive tool for the government anymore.

We are praying for your Mrs.!!

[TaxmanHog]

The unearned income taxes kick-in in 2013
2013
Taxes and fees

■New Medicare taxes on individuals earning more than $200,000 a year and couples filing jointly earning more than $250,000 a year.
■Tax on wages rises to 2.35% from 1.45%.
■New 3.8% tax on unearned income such as dividends and interest.
■Excise tax of 2.3% imposed on sale of medical devices.

Cost control

Medicare pilot program begins to test bundled payments for care, in a bid to pay for quality rather than quantity of services.

[Remphoto]

Just a coincidence I'm sure that the increased taxes don't kick in until after elections, but some of the giveaways begin right away:
*"Brat Insurance" (keep your <26 YO at home rather than do the right thing and kick their butts out into the real world.)
*Preexisting Conditions

These will add immediate expense to our insurance policies, which will hit at renewal time at year end for most plans (after the November elections). FYI, Ohio implemented Brat Insurance this past year and our insurance broker said it added about 3% to our company's renewal (about $15,000).

[TaxmanHog]

H.R.4872
Title: Health Care and Education Affordability Reconciliation Act of 2010

Sponsor: Rep Spratt, John M., Jr. [SC-5] (introduced 3/17/2010) Cosponsors (None)
Related Bills: H.RES.1203, H.R.3590

Latest Major Action: 3/21/2010 Passed/agreed to in House.
Status: On passage Passed by recorded vote: 220 - 211 (Roll no. 167).
House Reports: 111-443
Note: See the House Committee on Rules website for the text of amendment in the nature of a substitute.

[synseer]

Somebody go to the first link below and post up about it. I can't access it from my office at work.

"Listen to Democrat Rep. John Dingell explain to a questioner (from the left) about why it will take until 2014 for ObamaCare to operate in all its glory:

It takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people. (http://www.breitbart.tv/shocking-audio-rep-dingell-says-obamacare-will-eventually-control-the-people)"

http://townhall.com/blog/g/1f5555d1-6cc0-4670-a6f3-adab0b1b54c9

[Motive]

Most of the 30 million newly insured are young people who choose not to have insurance. Now they will be forced to buy.

Yeah, I spent most of my 20's uninsured. Even now with insurance, I rarely go to the doctor, havent been in about 7 years...and that was just to get some tests.

Wonder how this is going to affect my Health Care Savings Account.

[Remphoto]

Yeah, I spent most of my 20's uninsured. Even now with insurance, I rarely go to the doctor, havent been in about 7 years...and that was just to get some tests.

Wonder how this is going to affect my Health Care Savings Account.

HSA's will be history. That was (dare I say it) a Bush idea. The concept of rewarding individuals for controlling their healthcare usage and expenses is the opposite of what the Socialistic Libs believe. The Libs have to force younger, healthy people into the plan so they can pay for the old sicker people (like some of us).

[Motive]

Guess I better figure out how to spend that money before they yank it.

[gtrman66]

I've got my FSA about tapped out for the year already. The kids needed more than I planned on. The deductibles for blood tests are ridiculous.

[MYCAR47562]

this is the last year i do the fsa, i know it isn't really all that hard but requiring a itemized reciept for every charge is ridiculus. i get these little letters in the mail explaining that i either turn in the reciept or they will shut my card down make me pay back all charges and continue to pay for the card the remainder of the year.


fuck off is what i say

[right$pecial]

Yeah, I spent most of my 20's uninsured. Even now with insurance, I rarely go to the doctor, havent been in about 7 years...and that was just to get some tests.

Wonder how this is going to affect my Health Care Savings Account.

Same here. Aside from a hernia operation, that I received from the VA after receiving the injury in service, I haven't been to a doctor since getting checked out for High School athletics. I've had numerous outbreaks of pneumonia, the flu, a fractured ankle, cuts, scrapes, bruises, and broken ribs and never felt the need to visit a doctor but then again I was raised to be relatively old fashioned and independent. I knew a chick in High School, not making this up, who went to the doctor every sinus infection, and every time she had a zit she couldn't cover up; this is one of the other reasons insurance is ridiculously high.

[Motive]

but then again I was raised to be relatively old fashioned and independent.

Yeah, I'm pretty much the same way, raised to believe you can only depend on yourself.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

We don't have an HCSA.
At the beginning of the year for renewal,my wife and I sit down and go over what is offered.Then we call the insurance company and ask their advice to make sure we are choosing the plan and our financial end of the deal that suites us best for her health care.Mine are just regular check ups,with the exception of some cancer infected freckles I had removed last year.
At the end of January 2010,we had already hit our out of pocket responsibility for the year.Medication has also been met and we pay $4 for just about every single prescribed medication she needs.

It looks to me with all these changes that we are coming up against,we might need some paid counsel for advice for the next couple of years.
Like I've said before,I need good coverage for my wife.Medical care costs a fortune to keep her alive.

[Remphoto]

We don't have an HCSA.
At the beginning of the year for renewal,my wife and I sit down and go over what is offered.Then we call the insurance company and ask their advice to make sure we are choosing the plan and our financial end of the deal that suites us best for her health care.Mine are just regular check ups,with the exception of some cancer infected freckles I had removed last year.
At the end of January 2010,we had already hit our out of pocket responsibility for the year.Medication has also been met and we pay $4 for just about every single prescribed medication she needs.

It looks to me with all these changes that we are coming up against,we might need some paid counsel for advice for the next couple of years.
Like I've said before,I need good coverage for my wife.Medical care costs a fortune to keep her alive.

I'm not sure how much you will be impacted in the next couple of years other than the insurance companies are going to be raising their premiums even more than before to cover the new pre-existing condition and brat insurance provisions. Not sure if you will be able to use the pre-existing condition provisions to shop alternative companies (assuming any of them are accepting new clients). Just seeing that the Libs forgot to include the language of the pre-existing conditions for children reinforces the incompetence designed into this POS bill.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

I'm not sure either and most companys and advisers aren't giving,or selling information yet.
I heard about forgetting to write the children in for immediate pre existing conditions too.What a shame this cluster fuck is going to be.

I am actually going to choose legal counsel in the next couple of weeks and get Theresa rolling towards total disability.I have to learn what recourse,if any,the company she works for can do against her for taking an extended,doctor authorized leave of medical absence.
She has to be not working in order to get the ball rolling.Once she gets her foot in the door,she can go back to work if she chooses and make up to $930 per month,plus benefits.
If we can swing this,I will not be to awful worried for her future medical.

[Remphoto]

I'm not sure either and most companys and advisers aren't giving,or selling information yet.
I heard about forgetting to write the children in for immediate pre existing conditions too.What a shame this cluster fuck is going to be.

I am actually going to choose legal counsel in the next couple of weeks and get Theresa rolling towards total disability.I have to learn what recourse,if any,the company she works for can do against her for taking an extended,doctor authorized leave of medical absence.
She has to be not working in order to get the ball rolling.Once she gets her foot in the door,she can go back to work if she chooses and make up to $930 per month,plus benefits.
If we can swing this,I will not be to awful worried for her future medical.

If her employer is large enough to be covered under the Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) she should be able to get at least 12 weeks off under law. BTW, before this act was passed by the Clinton regime,many companies (ours included) would give 6 months or more. Like others, we shortened up the time to match the minimum required by law. Unintended consequences.

[Remphoto]

Here's what Morris says we need to do regarding getting rid of the healthcare legislation. Sounds good to me.

RESPONDING TO OBAMACARE: RESTORE, DEFEAT, DEFUND, REPEAL

By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN

Published on DickMorris.com on March 23, 2010

Let's begin our reaction to the passage of Obamacare by remembering Winston Churchill's famous formulation with which he introduced his war memoirs:
In defeat: defiance
In war: resolution
In victory: magnanimity
In peace: goodwill

Now is the time for defiance! Here's what we must do:

1. Restore the Medicare cuts mandated in this bill. Block the reduction of physicians' fees by 21% scheduled to take effect this fall. Override the cuts in Medicare that require annual approval by Congress. Challenge the Democrats over each and every cut. Try to peel away enough votes to stop the cuts from driving doctors and hospitals to adopt the course already taken by the Mayo Clinic in refusing to take Medicare patients.

2. Defeat the Democrats in the 2010 election! Start with the traitors who voted no in November and then switched to a shameful yes when it counted in March: Baird (Washington), Nye (Virginia), Kosmas and Boyd (Florida), Then go on to win the open seats in the House and Senate. And then fight to replace as many Democrats as possible. Remember: Any Democrat who voted no would have voted yes if they had needed his or her vote. The only way to repeal Obamacare is to vote Republican.

3. Defund Once we get the majority in both chambers, defund appropriations for the Obamacare program. The bill passed by the Congress and signed by the president is simply an authorization measure. Funds must be appropriated for it each year by Congress. Through zero funding these changes, we can cripple them before they take full effect.

4. Repeal And, once we defeat Barack Obama, we need to proceed to repeal this disastrous plan before it can ruin our health care system. Then, we must replace it with a Republican alternative which relies on the marketplace, tax incentives, and individual responsibility to provide health care to all Americans.

Above all, we must finally learn the fundamental lesson this political process we have been through has to teach: That there is no such thing as a conservative or moderate Democrat. Blue dogs don't exist in real life. Only yellow dogs.

The days when there were Democrats who refused to follow their radical leftwing party line are over. There are no longer "state" Democrats who vote conservative as opposed to "national" Democrats who vote with the left. They are an extinct species. Some Senators and Congressmen capitalize on our memories of those days and pretend to be moderates. But they are just faking it.

Nancy Pelosi knew -- as Harry Reid knew in the Senate -- that she had the potential support of every single Democrat in her chamber if only the price was right. The sole difference between moderate and liberal Democrats is their asking price. Moderates require slightly higher bribes to assure their votes.

There are only two kinds of Congressmen or Senators: Democrats and Republicans. We have had a national education and its time to learn from it. In days gone by, intelligent people liked to say that they voted for the person, not the party. Now those who say this are fooling themselves. There is only party! The most conservative Democrat is way to the left of the most liberal Republican.

The Democratic victory on Obamacare will prove the most expensive in the party's history. It will lead to the eradication of their majority, the defeat of more than fifty of their Congressmen, the switch of Senate control, and Republican domination for decades. And, in the end, it will have done nothing to improve health care. But, fortunately, we can win the 2010 election to stop it from doing much damage.

[Al the Auto Mechanic]

People people people.This "thing" is law.It is NOT going to go away.
The only thing we can hope for is a for the Republicans to take office and ignore this phony law.It will never go away.

The negative affect took place immediately on Monday morning.My phone has rung one time for retail customers and the wholesale shops I deal with declined all repairs except one,and that's just a park interlock cable.My brother went back to work for the Chevy dealer last month and was turning 80 hours a week.Last night he said the whole shop was dead and some guys had to borrow against their vacation and sick days to have money for their households.
I don't know why this president did this in the order he chose.If he would have made faithful attempts at fixing the bank,housing and other major economical problems first,he would have had a free ticket into a second term to pass this health issue into law with a popular public vote instead of taking people up in a jet and threatening to throw them out if they didn't vote yes.

[nelson]

Why did efforts to centralize healthcare fail in the early 1990s but succeed today? One big reason is that baby boomers are now older, grayer, and scared out of their wits by the economic crisis's effect on their retirement. Therefore, they are more open to the idea of using the coercive power of the state to force others to pay for their medical care.


Fifty Links to Our Healthcare Future
http://mises.org/daily/4224