View Full Version : A little scary
I am guessing i will be the only one on here that finds this troubling. I was starting to like Texas. Now, not so much.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/12/texas-education-board-app_n_497440.html
AUSTIN, Texas — A far-right faction of the Texas State Board of Education succeeded Friday in injecting conservative ideals into social studies, history and economics lessons that will be taught to millions of students for the next decade.
Teachers in Texas will be required to cover the Judeo-Christian influences of the nation's Founding Fathers, but not highlight the philosophical rationale for the separation of church and state. Curriculum standards also will describe the U.S. government as a "constitutional republic," rather than "democratic," and students will be required to study the decline in value of the U.S. dollar, including the abandonment of the gold standard.
"We have been about conservatism versus liberalism," said Democrat Mavis Knight of Dallas, explaining her vote against the standards. "We have manipulated strands to insert what we want it to be in the document, regardless as to whether or not it's appropriate."
Following three days of impassioned and acrimonious debate, the board gave preliminary approval to the new standards with a 10-5 party line vote. A final vote is expected in May, after a public comment period that could produce additional amendments and arguments.
Decisions by the board – made up of lawyers, a dentist and a weekly newspaper publisher among others – can affect textbook content nationwide because Texas is one of publishers' biggest clients.
Ultraconservatives wielded their power over hundreds of subjects this week, introducing and rejecting amendments on everything from the civil rights movement to global politics. Hostilities flared and prompted a walkout Thursday by one of the board's most prominent Democrats, Mary Helen Berlanga of Corpus Christi, who accused her colleagues of "whitewashing" curriculum standards.
By late Thursday night, three other Democrats seemed to sense their futility and left, leaving Republicans to easily push through amendments heralding "American exceptionalism" and the U.S. free enterprise system, suggesting it thrives best absent excessive government intervention.
"Some board members themselves acknowledged this morning that the process for revising curriculum standards in Texas is seriously broken, with politics and personal agendas dominating just about every decision," said Kathy Miller, president of the Texas Freedom Network, which advocates for religious freedom.
Republican Terri Leo, a member of the powerful Christian conservative voting bloc, called the standards "world class" and "exceptional."
Story continues below
Board members argued about the classification of historic periods (still B.C. and A.D., rather than B.C.E. and C.E.); whether students should be required to explain the origins of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and its impact on global politics (they will); and whether former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir should be required learning (she will).
In addition to learning the Bill of Rights, the board specified a reference to the Second Amendment right to bear arms in a section about citizenship in a U.S. government class.
Conservatives beat back multiple attempts to include hip-hop as an example of a significant cultural movement.
Numerous attempts to add the names or references to important Hispanics throughout history also were denied, inducing one amendment that would specify that Tejanos died at the Alamo alongside Davy Crockett and Jim Bowie. Another amendment deleted a requirement that sociology students "explain how institutional racism is evident in American society."
Democrats did score a victory by deleting a portion of an amendment by Republican Don McLeroy suggesting that the civil rights movement led to "unrealistic expectations for equal outcomes."
Fort Worth Republican Pat Hardy, a longtime teacher, voted for the new standards, but said she wished the board could work with a more cooperative spirit.
"What we've done is we've taken a document that by nature is too long to begin with and then we've lengthened it some more," Hardy said, shortly after the vote. "Those long lists of names that we've put in there ... it's just too long.
"I just think we failed to keep that in mind, it's hard for teachers to get through it all."
Remphoto
03-13-2010, 09:27 AM
The only thing that is scary here is the typical Huffington Post biased reporting. They are twisting the teaching of traditional American values into some kind of "Ultra Right Wing" plot.
Here are some more balanced reports:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4093859/history-being-rewritten
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4098847/were-not-rewriting-history
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/03/11/president-reagan-gets-the-shaft-in-textbooks/
Balanced from fox news. I think not. Huffington called them ultra right wing, so you post a video that depicts liberals as troublemakers. I am not opposed to some of the items they highlighted, but if some of the comments in that story dont trouble you and the road it could lead down. I guess as long as they align with your beliefs its all good. That last article gave great examples of what should be changed. But lets be honest that school board is not voting on whether to simply fix those factual errors.
right$pecial
03-13-2010, 10:21 AM
Just going off the first line...I absolutely hate revisionist history, however; this seems to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
Am i the pot or the kettle. Or are you talking about the protesters complaining about the conservatives doing what the conservatives accused the Liberals of doing.
And a quick search actually showed that the Huff post was just a repost of a standard story that was picked up by just about every news site i searched.
nelson
03-13-2010, 10:32 AM
Although the Huffington account clearly wants to scare readers, when you "read between the lines" of media accounts as I have grown accustomed to doing, it sounds like possibly the beginning of a return to some semblance of accuracy.
Judeo-Christian values did have a huge influence on our nation's Founding Fathers.
20th century bias greatly exaggerates separation of church and state as an influence; historically it simply was not a lightning rod issue. The phrase was a footnote among the Founders, who officially mentioned it nowhere, and it did not explode in recognition until recent decades, when it has chiefly been wielded for political purposes.
And a sound understanding of real currency is absolutely critical for anyone interested in the history of America, which is largely the story of how economic prosperity grew to such amazing proportions. The original US Dollar was 371.25 grains of pure silver. The amount of gold in US gold coins was actually regulated, taking into consideration the exchange rates between the two metals, such that it would equal the value of 10 silver dollars, or 3712.5 grains of pure silver. To ensure this continued, the amount of gold in a gold coin was even adjusted upon changes in the exchange rate. It was really a silver standard. Eventually this was obscured and, as we grew exponentially more prosperous, heavily manipulated, capitalized upon, and finally fundamentally (and illegally) transformed into a standard based on nothing; we call it the Dollar Bill. (I'm no economist, but I did recently read a fantastic article over at Mises: A Constitutional Dollar (http://mises.org/daily/4149).)
Based on this currency observation alone, it is amazing how small changes, made over time, each of which seems perfectly sensible at the time, can result in total transformation, and finally even the destruction of what was a bedrock principle.
The real reason why liberals, and the Huffington Post, will be so afraid of teaching those things is that their ideals, and the "progressive" movement of ideals in general, have worked so long and hard to cover them up.
Everything you said was right Nelson, and i learned about all those things in school and so is my daughter right now.
Judeo-Christian values did have a huge influence on our nation's Founding Fathers. Yes it did, which also informed them to the fact that Religion in any form throughout history as been used as a means of control just like government and many times in exchange for government.
I have no disagreement with you on matters of money.
nelson
03-13-2010, 11:03 AM
100% agree about religion, Danv. No institution is perfect, organized religion included. The real problem with it, which you are correct to say the Founders knew, is the same problem we know well - power corrupts. And religious organizations tend to centralize power into a few human beings. No doubt that is the major issue with religion. Yet we cannot let this fear fester and begin to cloud our vision of religion entirely, prevent us from seeing the power of distributed religion, especially the beneficial ideals in particular religions, which, when adhered to, really promote a healthy society. Just because power corrupts, which we already knew, we need not fear Christianity, nor Christian fellowship among our leaders, nor even Christian ideals printed on our official assets. These values, and our collective adherence to them, are not the things our Founders feared in organized religion, and I don't fear them either - I embrace them. You are right about this influence upon our Founders of course, just that over time we've carried their fear of centralized power of religious institutions so far that it has evolved into outright revulsion of something else entirely, the belief itself, something that actually helps us, and has helped us, tremendously. This is tragic.
I myself am not a religious person, but i always cringe when i see people on both sides demonize the other. Even i will admit to what good Religion brings. I believe both sides have floated to the fringes of the disagreement. My number one problem with the conservative, or Republican policies have always revolved around there social stances and closeness to the religious right. These people who want god taken off our money, and under god taken out of the pledge are idiots. My Daughter goes to public school and i want them to teach her to be a critical thinker and prepare her for the world. Her and i together will decide what role religion will play in her life. People who want prayer in school need to send there children to a private school.
Danv, simply put, without the Ten Commandments we would not be a nation! You can spin it anyway you want but just because an ultra leftist like the Huff speaks and you believe it, tells me that you don't understand the great tenants of God's word at all! Men, with the influence of evil, have bastardized religion, not the belief in God! We are literally the greatest nation in history, for the time being, and that hurts the feelings of the leftist dems on the committee that by the way were all black or hispanic! They want to continue to screw people like you and your children up with the revision of history by replacing it with Multiculturalism! You are infected by your own comments which are flat out wrong! But, if you keep putting your faith in secular leftist you kids will grow up thinking Lincoln and Jefferson and Columbus need to be deleted and that the Alamo was victory for Larza! Study the history of the CCCP and Germany and find what happens to a culture that removes the Judeo-Christian truths from God to his people! Take a hard look at whom it is BHO and his ilk have placed in the positions of power in the people's house. Many love Mao and Marx! You need to seriously change your favorites and turn on Rush...then and only then will their be hope for you to have an awakening to how misguided you are. This has got to be the most disappointing post of yours I have read. I say this as a true concern for you and you apparent belief system. I have known many men that have been lost to the truth and if you really study true history you will find millions that have been duped only later to be left in ruins. The Russian people today after 70 years of revisionist history and atheism live in a wasteland of dispare. God and the truth now is their only hope just as our only hope lies in our conservative resergency. Join, follow, or get out of the way, the truth only has one side!
Sorry to disappoint you Jeb. Its people like you who i fear will one day be in control of this country. I am wrong because i dont share faith with your God. Should i now fear Gods army? Will you purge this nation of non-believers?
Sorry to disappoint you Jeb. Its people like you who i fear will one day be in control of this country. I am wrong because i dont share faith with your God. Should i now fear Gods army? Will you purge this nation of non-believers?
My God is not the one that teaches 72 virgins in a brothel called heaven! What you should be very afraid of is the little tin god BHO and the securlar god of man and his worship of this planet over the people that inhabit it! The religion of Global warming and Secular Humanism is your god of exstermination! Let's see, the soviets killed 70,000,000 and the chinese may have doubled that through forced abortion alone. Hitler killed 6 million jews, but revised history left out the 10,000,000 Christions that he murdered! We teach people to join us at church, but not with a sword! Your choice!
We have aborted 40,000,000 and counting!
right$pecial
03-13-2010, 09:13 PM
Dan, I wasn't calling you the pot or the kettle. As you guessed I was talking about the left vs right side of the argument in question.
Sorry to disappoint you Jeb. Its people like you who i fear will one day be in control of this country. I am wrong because i dont share faith with your God. Should i now fear Gods army? Will you purge this nation of non-believers?
Actually, I want to amend my comments with this thought specifically for you..Danv! You would be damn lucky to have a God-fearing Christian running this nation in the same tradition as Christian Patriots like Washinton, Madison, Lincoln and Reagan. Yet you seem content with BHO, to whom does he serve? Satin, Allah, Jerimiah Wright or is he just a narcistic bafune! May we all find ourselves having an awakining to this madness your side likes to call returning the wealth of America back to it's rightful owners! Change that could destroy us and bring on one of the worst upheavals we have seen since the Great Depression. You and your union buddies will do fine until you find you collective pensions looted as most already have been! You will live to regret this party and this President...on that you can be sure!:(
Motive
03-15-2010, 09:51 AM
Was the reason for even coming over here NOT for religious purposes? Teaching kids that the founding fathers were religious doesn't sound demonic to me. Kids definitely need to know about the value of a dollar, and inflation...since most of them don't seem to work for their money anymore, they need to be educated, that printing more money isn't the answer.
Seems the Huffington is blowing it out of proportion IMO...
The point is more who is editing these books. I watched and interview with the Dentist an this panel and he said he has a conservative, christian world view and wants the books to reflect that. Last year they successfully got inserted into text books questioning evolution and he believes the world is no older than 10,000 years old. Never mind the scientific evidence to the contrary. Or the fact they had the author of Brown bear a childrens book name removed because he had the same name as another writer who criticized capitalism. He defended his stance by saying they knew what they were getting when they elected him. Asked if he would soften his stance since he has now been voted out. His response, why would i.
As for you Jeb this statement lets me know all i need to know.
You and your union buddies will do fine until you find you collective pensions looted as most already have been! You will live to regret this party and this President...on that you can be sure!
Your compassion and kindness as a god fearing christian are showing through. Its amazing that someone would root for people to lose there life savings and retirements simply because they disagree with you.
Motive
03-15-2010, 02:53 PM
I don't put much faith in grade school education, I view it's purpose as to aid in teaching kids the basic tools required to function in the adult world.
Nobody really takes an 18 year old kid's interpretation of the world we live in, seriously. Their opinions don't really weigh heavily on any outcomes. Sure they can vote, but how many of them actually do? Odds are, they're going to take their parents' stances on the world (if they like them) or the complete opposite (for no other reason than if they're rebellious)
Life begins after High School, anything conservative they've been taught in High School, will surely be undone by their Liberal Arts professor...or solidified by their Drill Sergeant. If they join the workforce directly out of High School, odds are they aren't concerned about politics.
nelson
03-15-2010, 02:58 PM
This is why public education is absurd. Does anyone actually believe all Americans, or more importantly, all Americans who actually pay taxes, can agree on a curriculum? Can we even all agree on the disciplines it should include? If a majority agrees on something, and it is implemented, do we forget what the minority wanted, and simply teach the most popular current day world view with all of its flaws?
If there is no public education, this is a non-issue.
The point is more who is editing these books. I watched and interview with the Dentist an this panel and he said he has a conservative, christian world view and wants the books to reflect that. Last year they successfully got inserted into text books questioning evolution and he believes the world is no older than 10,000 years old. Never mind the scientific evidence to the contrary. Or the fact they had the author of Brown bear a childrens book name removed because he had the same name as another writer who criticized capitalism. He defended his stance by saying they knew what they were getting when they elected him. Asked if he would soften his stance since he has now been voted out. His response, why would i.
As for you Jeb this statement lets me know all i need to know.
You and your union buddies will do fine until you find you collective pensions looted as most already have been! You will live to regret this party and this President...on that you can be sure!
Your compassion and kindness as a god fearing christian are showing through. Its amazing that someone would root for people to lose there life savings and retirements simply because they disagree with you.
I happen to be a creationist myself Danv! Me and 10's of 1000s of famous research scientist including the world's greatest minds like Sir Issac Newton also believe in the Genesis true story. In fact, he developed his famous Laws of Thermodynamics based on Genesis. This might shock you but you can research this on ICR.com and see for yourself. There has never been a missing link found yet! We find the oldest living thing on this planet and any proof whatsever no older than 10,000 years old! Carbon testing alone will only record 1400 years and then you have to exstrapulate based on millions of years. Millions of digs all over the world and not one missing link. Yet for centuries we know that evolutionist faked Piltdown man with plaster of paris and an orangatan skull. Lucy, was also a forgery using a severly scoleosis skeleton and a female primate skull! Of course just like Global Warming is a hoax so too is the lie that man evolved from the same damn monkey that still swing in the trees and fling shit at the zoo! The attempt you speak of was not to remove evolution but to let creationism and intellegent design be taught side by side as it was done in my youth! If 68% of Americans believe in Creation and the Bible, why is it stupid of us to want it taught! Damn, I am so tired of educating you mind-numbed robots! The 2nd law of thermodynamics alone disproves Macro-evolution! We do believe in micro-evolution which is adaptation; but not this ridiculous theory that shit just happened! Who made who? My vrod was designed, my truck was design and everything on this planet was designed! God also design us in his own image! In fact, your little bullet says the devil pulled the greatest scam by making the world think he did not exist...right! Well, you're close, his greatest trick was his deceit of evolution which Satan himself pushed into the minds of man to place doubt in his heart about his Father in Heaven!
Now, I challenge anyone here to research the ICR (Institute for Creation Research) or read the book by Dr. Henry Morris, called "The Long War against God", or "Bones of Contention"...both which document the truth of the lefts greatest conspiracy that has lead to the genocide of hundreds of millions of Christians and Jews! How many children have now been raised believing that their creation was merely random chance!
I really love you Danv, as Christ demands, and my gut tells me you are a decent guy...but, if you really have a problem with what the text book board did by insisting that our true history not be omitted from social studies, I feel their is little hope for your conversion to rational thought!
And just so we are clear, the stimulus was nothing more than a slush fund for the union bosses and their buddies in every state in the union! They have already raided the trust/pension funds in 45 of the lower 48 states. But, I thought you knew that! Three states according to a recent study are all that is left of books in the black! Lucky for me I have a federal Thrift Savings 401 K, as they have not screwed themselves in the halls of congress. Have you not heard that states are not paying their state taxes in an attempt to gain interest to cover so many short falls in their pension plans that they looted to fund welfare, UC, FOOD STamps and 66% of our GDP which is entitlements! From Ca, to Ny every state is cooking the books and robbing Peter to pay Paul, in the name of the poor and the middle class!
You better hope you live in an area with God-fearing Christians like me when this free lunch finally ends. It is going to get ugly when 4 generations of welfare and entitlement folks lose their free lunch! Have you not seen the massive strikes in EU over their benefits and pensions being cut! My God, even the police in uniform have joined the mass protest over freebies from Greece to Italy to France. We are about to lose our AAA credit rating from Moody's because of BHO and the Dems reckless and franic debt spending. But, are they slowing down...hell no, they are going to cram ObamaCare down our throats even when they know 86% of Americans like their plans! Every poll shows a large majority against this socialist takeover and we are arguing about whether to let Lincoln stay in the text books~~~:D
MYCAR47562
03-16-2010, 08:13 AM
jeb i really like your last post.
danv i understand where you are coming from on your fear of what texas is doing, but just as is in any other republic these people were chosen by their constituants to represent them. they feel they are. maybe they will be kicked out i dunno, but my guess is if their constituents feel they are not they will be removed and the new school board can remove the new laws and add all the viva mexico and the alamo was a victory for mexico they want.
Well one was voted out and is simply finishing out his term. If what they did in Texas would stay there i would not take much interest here in MO.
As to Jebs point simply becasue a majority of americans believe it to be right doesnt make it so. If you want to teach your children about Creationism you or your church can teach them that. At one point in time if you polled americans they would have told you slavery was right. Does it make it so? Public education should be about providing everyone a basic education to allow them to become productive members of society. You complain that the left uses these tactics so your answer is to do the same thing. If you can not see the danger of inserting ideas that have zero scientific proof into science teachings because they follow your religious views. When public sentiment swings and we go and change the curriculum in another direction i guess you will be ok with that. Its no wonder that education in this country falls farther and farther behind the rest of the world when are playing there games.
nelson
03-16-2010, 10:04 AM
The left has indeed propagandized for decades. Must the conservatives sit there and take it? Can they not desire to fight back, in order to reduce just a small portion of the devastating effects of decades of ultra-liberalism in the schools? Realistically I think it would take 30 years of hardcore right-wing propaganda to even halfway balance what the left has done to the nation via the public school system. And from the very beginning, the left will say: you can't do what we've been doing, because you said we can't do it. Is this really a good reason?
Public schooling, again, is the root of this problem. Because taxes pay for education, we all believe we are entitled to some control over the public school curriculum. And we are correct. The problem is, we are so diversified now that there can be no consensus. Believe it or not, I think this is by design. What do you think is going to happen to health care when it's publically funded for decades? We will all believe ourselves entitled to the same influence over those decisions. We will agree on nothing. And in the absence of our consensus, unions and government will make the decisions for us.
Without public schooling, we have much more influence over what is taught to our children by deciding how and where they will be schooled.
MYCAR47562
03-16-2010, 11:05 AM
Danv So By Saying That Some Rock Hit Another Rock In Space And Bam We Were Created, Is More Scientifically Proven Than God Makeing The Earth?
How Bout This Why Don't You Start Hitting Rocks Together, And When You Find Life Was Formed By The Collesion I Might Believe You.
And Yes Because The Majority Of The People Believe It's True Makes It What Will Be Taught. We Are Not And Should Not Be Ruled By The Minority, Now What Might That Be Called.
Motive
03-16-2010, 12:09 PM
It's still being taught, that the civil war was about abolishing slavery...
Remphoto
03-16-2010, 01:54 PM
Nelson, you nailed it. There has clearly been a downward spiral in the quality of public education and this is due in part to a rampant shift leftward in curriculum. I served on a state-level K- Jr.College curriculum team as a business representative.I can tell you that the Libs were firmly in control. Their worldview is totally out of step with the real world.
nelson
03-17-2010, 03:53 PM
Here's a documented essay that relates the recent Texas story to the history of revisionism in textbooks.
The Texas Textbook Wars
http://mises.org/daily/4198
With the way this last year has evolved into a sixties communist nightmare, with everything these lunatics have ever thought of doing to America coming true...how could anyone not stand up and cheer these sane Texas patriots for fighting back against these leftist scum that would steal the hearts and minds of our children!
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