Stem Cell Research

[MYCAR47562]

Whats Your Feelings On This?

[gtrman66]

Since I believe life begins at conception, I find it repugnant. I oppose using the human fetus as "tissue" samples. But then again, I oppose these "banks" of human fetus's just sitting there.

On the other hand... I believe it should be a state's decision and not that of the federal government. If someone disagrees with the stance of their state, they can vote with their feet (and consequently, their dollars).

[MYCAR47562]

Weather Its The Federal Goverment Mandates It Or The State Goverment Mandates It Doent Matter.

I Believe That Any Research That Has To Be Done By Killing Anyone Is Just Wrong.

My Sister Was Asking Me About This Today And I Am Read Out Today But Do They Use Abortions In This Process Or How Does This Work? Short Please Not Really Looking To Read For 10 Minutes For An Answer

[gtrman66]

The "argument" is they use fetus's that couple's "bank" for attempts at pregnancy. At a certain point they are disposed of (divorce, give up...).

[MYCAR47562]

Fetus's Banked? I Dont Get It A Fetus Is A Baby How Is It Banked How Does It Get The Fetus Stage With Out Being In A Woman's Body?

I Guess I Have Fetus Wrong

[gtrman66]

You can create a fetus in a test tube and freeze it for artificial insimonation at a later date.

[MYCAR47562]

Wow Ok So If They Can Do That Doesnt That Mean That It Wont Be Long Before The Can Start Preserving Us For A Later Period?

["shazbat"]

In this country I don't believe that you can use aborted fetuses after a certain date in past history. Existing lines of cells prior to that date can be used but nothing since that time.
That being said invitro fertilization is a viable method depending on what you believe.
If it is fertilized out of the body and stored as a cell cluster does that qualify as a fetus?
Alot of progress is being made in the field of alternatively made stem-cells without using fetuses or abortive material. In time that reasearch may prove to be the most cost effective.
Realistically you and I have more to fear from the "right to life" movement than you could ever imagine in an Orwellian society.
Taken to extremes the potential conflict between right to life and right to die is frightening.

[MYCAR47562]

man i just dont know what to think about this one. i mean most of me wants to say that its not a baby but then the pro choice people have a place to say that any fetsus isnt a baby but personally ive never seen a baby born that didnt come from its mother's stomache

[vrodderD]

Whats Your Feelings On This?

It's just another pro-abortion argument in my opinion. I think abortion is legalized murder. Yet most that will be in power come Jan 20 2009 would rather shut down Gitmo and free the scum there than save babies.

[gtrman66]

It's just another pro-abortion argument in my opinion. I think abortion is legalized murder. Yet most that will be in power come Jan 20 2009 would rather shut down Gitmo and free the scum there than save babies.

Well said.

["shazbat"]

Just out of curiosity, when is the last time anyone forced any of you guys to have an abortion?

[MYCAR47562]

Who Is Forced To Have An Abortion?

[gtrman66]

Just out of curiosity, when is the last time anyone forced any of you guys to have an abortion?

I don't understand the question?

I can tell you first hand the devestation left on a woman that makes that "choice" only to regret it for the rest of her life.

Adoption... that's a choice.

["shazbat"]

Who Is Forced To Have An Abortion?

Clever, but there were actually two points in that question.
While waiting for you to find the second I'll pose another question.
Just out of curiosity how many of you guys believe in the death sentence for those convicted of certain capitol crimes?
And perhaps we can take this dicussion to another thread as "stem cells" really don't apply.

Yo gtrman66, yes adoption is a choice. No one has said otherwise. I am sorry that someone you know has suffered from the results of their choice and will not belittle her pain.
We all make tough choices everyday but we have the right to do so. It's better than the alternative.

[vrodderD]

Just out of curiosity how many of you guys believe in the death sentence for those convicted of certain capitol crimes?

Are you equating abortion with capital punishment? How does this apply? Its ok to kill babies because we kill felon's?

We all make tough choices everyday but we have the right to do so. It's better than the alternative.

What choice did the baby have before it was aborted?

["shazbat"]

Are you equating abortion with capital punishment? How does this apply? Its ok to kill babies because we kill felon's?

If you see abortion as killing babies then you can justify one without the other?
If you see it as murder then state sponsored murder (kind of a misnomer as we all vote for the state officials that ajudicate murder in our names) is OK.
I find it difficult to understand professed Christians who accept that "some murder" is OK while other murder isn't. Kind of selective and self serving, in reallity it sounds kind of like a "choice". OMG

[gtrman66]

IMHO, the guy on death row made his choice. The baby in the womb never gets that luxury. I am an eye-for-an-eye kind of guy in that respect.

Yes, I believe abortion is murder and it is wrong.
Yes, I believe Capital Punishment is just.
I have no conflicts about it.

[MYCAR47562]

sorry shazbat im still not seeing your point.

so what your saying is because those inmates killed people its ok for a woman to kill her baby? hum sounds like a strech to me

["shazbat"]

sorry shazbat im still not seeing your point.

so what your saying is because those inmates killed people its ok for a woman to kill her baby? hum sounds like a strech to me

No, I'm saying that since you believe it is OK to kill the inmate that killing is OK across the board, if that is not right then what degree of killing is acceptable.
As a Christian is killing right or is it wrong, or is it only wrong when you think it's wrong. And yet again that is a choice.
Multiple juxtapositions and quandaries here. Choice is OK when you like the choice but not when you don't.

[MYCAR47562]

killing is ok when you are protecting other people from being killed. killing because you dont want a baby is not ok.

have you read the bible?

["shazbat"]

Just for the sake of arguement, whatever happened to "Thou shall not kill"
What you all still show me is killing is OK when "YOU" say it's OK.
Is that your Choice? What's the difference?
Killing is killing is killing is killing. It's the same or it's not. WHich is it?
And this is still beyond stem cells and you have yet to discover the second point of the original question.

[gtrman66]

Actually "you" would be a jury of your peers.

Killing and justice are not neccessarily the same. If you go on a killing spree, you know you will face the dealth penalty. You make the choice.

A baby has no choice, no say in the matter at all.

So to stem cells, using discarded babies is wrong. Period. If an adult signs their body over for research after death, go for it.

[MYCAR47562]

it also says to follow the rules of your country and a rule of this country is to allow the death penalty

["shazbat"]

Actually "you" would be a jury of your peers.
.

Actually "YOU" equates to "YOU", however "YOU" look at it.
"YOU" can try to slough off responsibility however "YOU" like but "YOU" elect the officials that make the laws, "YOU" support the judicial process in all it's parts, "YOU" whether in person or not are responsible for the jury make up and "YOU" are responsible for carrying out the sentence.
Screw the "killer", they made their choice as "YOU" said, likewise by supporting the system "YOU" too choose to say that killing is OK when is suits "YOU" yet "YOU" do not believe another has the equal choice to make diecisions pertaining to their bodies.
Awful lot of "YOU" in there.

[vrodderD]

No, I'm saying that since you believe it is OK to kill the inmate that killing is OK across the board, if that is not right then what degree of killing is acceptable.
As a Christian is killing right or is it wrong, or is it only wrong when you think it's wrong. And yet again that is a choice.
Multiple juxtapositions and quandaries here. Choice is OK when you like the choice but not when you don't.


No offense but that is a uneducated statement. Convicted felon's had a choice and a day in court.

Leaving religion out of it, you are saying that because we kill criminal adults who have had a trial by a jury of there peers, its ok to kill babies?

If we take that route, then we should give the baby their day in court to justify why they are being sentenced to death. If they could talk, they wouldn't have a clue as to "why", because their parents decided that an orgasm was more important than the result of their fun, being they created a human life.

[vrodderD]

Just for the sake of arguement, whatever happened to "Thou shall not kill"
What you all still show me is killing is OK when "YOU" say it's OK.
Is that your Choice? What's the difference?
Killing is killing is killing is killing. It's the same or it's not. WHich is it?
And this is still beyond stem cells and you have yet to discover the second point of the original question.

I could care less what happens to murderer's. My opinion is that they would suffer more by being kept in Supermax for the rest of their lives.

So if we revert capital punishment for convicted murderer's and the like, then we should have no problem reversing Roe v Wade? Right.......

["shazbat"]

So if we revert capital punishment for convicted murderer's and the like, then we should have no problem reversing Roe v Wade? Right.......

There in my friend lies the Democrats quandary, juxtaposed to the Republicans quandary.

But my true feelings will have to wait till later. It's quitting time and I'm outta here. Adieu.

Oh BTW, the second point is the gender, i.e. "guy" and guess how I feel about where that falls into place in this arguement.

[MYCAR47562]

i got the guy's comment but i see no female's jumping in so guess what its a guy's convo right now

[vrodderD]

There in my friend lies the Democrats quandary, juxtaposed to the Republicans quandary.

But my true feelings will have to wait till later. It's quitting time and I'm outta here. Adieu.

Oh BTW, the second point is the gender, i.e. "guy" and guess how I feel about where that falls into place in this arguement.

Thanks for keeping it civil. We can all agree without getting in the gutter, regardless of our beliefs.

I don't really see any quandary at all. I am most certain that conservatives, regardless of party, would agree to a moratorium on the death penalty if we also could get one on Abortion. I just don't see the how they even compare though.

["shazbat"]

Thanks for keeping it civil. We can all agree without getting in the gutter, regardless of our beliefs.
.

Yes we can all keep it within the boundaries of civility and there's alot to be said for that.
The "guy" thing. As a guy I can't have an abortion. It is my belief that because of that distinction I am disqualified from being able to make relavent comment or that my opinion should have any weight or merit.

[MYCAR47562]

lol you shouldnt comment? wow youve been commenting all over this thread you pos just kidding man i was trying to be uncivil

["shazbat"]

First successful windpipe transplant built from stem cells


Nov. 19, 2008

Physicians at four European universities have completed what they say is the first successful transplant of a human windpipe using a patient’s own stem cells to fashion an organ and prevent its rejection by her immune system, according to an article in the British medical journal The Lancet. One of the physicians said the surgery could herald a “new age in surgical care.”

The transplant operation was performed on the patient, Claudia Castillo, in June in Barcelona, Spain, to alleviate an acute shortage of breath caused by a failing airway following severe tuberculosis. It followed weeks of preparation carried out at the universities of Barcelona, Spain, Bristol, England and Padua and Milan in Italy.

News of the procedure coincided with speculation that President-elect Barack Obama may reverse the Bush Administration’s restrictions on stem cell research, which has been contentious in some European countries, too. Anthony Hollander, a professor at Bristol Univ., said ethical concerns relating to embryonic stem cell research had not surfaced in the latest procedure because it had used only the patient’s own stem cells. “This was not embryonic stem cell research,” he said in a telephone interview.

Ms. Castillo, 30, was hospitalized in March with her windpipe so badly damaged by tuberculosis that she was unable to walk more than a few steps at a time, according to a statement from Bristol Univ.

“The only conventional option remaining was a major operation to remove her left lung which carries a risk of complications and a high mortality rate,” Bristol Univ. said.

The surgery represented what the university called “pioneering work.”

“We are terribly excited by these results,” said Prof. Paolo Macchiarini of the Univ. of Barcelona, who performed the operation. “Just four days after transplantation the graft was almost indistinguishable from adjacent normal bronchi.”

Moreover, two months after the surgery, lung function tests on Ms. Castillo “were all at the better end of the normal range for a young woman,” the Bristol University statement said.

Martin Birchall, a professor at the university, said the transplant showed “the very real potential for adult stem cells and tissue engineering to radically improve their ability to treat patients with serious diseases. We believe this success has proved that we are on the verge of a new age in surgical care.”

The Bristol Univ. statement said a segment of trachea, roughly three inches long, was taken from a 51-year-old donor who had died of a cerebral hemorrhage. Using a new technique developed in Padua Univ., the trachea was stripped of its donor’s cells over a six-week period “so that no donor cells remained,” the statement said.

At the same time, at Bristol Univ., stem cells removed from Ms. Castillo’s bone marrow, were grown into “a large population” and used to “seed” the donated windpipe using a new technique developed in Milan to incubate cells.

Four days after the seeding, the graft was used to replace Ms. Castillo’s damaged windpipe.

Normally after transplants there is a high risk of rejection because the recipient’s immune system reacts against the foreign organ. Most transplant patients, thus, use immunosuppressant drugs to prevent rejection.

“The patient has not developed antibodies to her graft, despite not taking any immunosuppressive drugs,” the statement from Bristol Univ. said.

[gtrman66]

Their "own" stem cells... not embryonic. Do not confuse the 2 issues. Adult stem cell research is fine. It's the embryonic stem cell research that is "evil" and BO wants reinstated.

["shazbat"]

Just reinforces my earlier point that necessity has forced research and technique in other directions to get around the embyonic ban.
Whether BO lifts it or not alternative avenues are becoming more readily available and practical. It may eliminate the need or even the desire to pursue the embryonic lines altogether.

[gtrman66]

And that would be change I can believe in :D

[MYCAR47562]

i like that change

[peytonvrscd]

TTT.

OB made the change.

Honestly, one of my best friends was just paralyzed from the chest down. If stem cell research could get him walking again, I would have a hard time saying no to it.

[MYCAR47562]

Is There Any Chance Of Recovery For Your Friend?

[gtrman66]

TTT.

OB made the change.

Honestly, one of my best friends was just paralyzed from the chest down. If stem cell research could get him walking again, I would have a hard time saying no to it.

I'm not against stem cell research. Nope, not at all. I am against "embryonic" stem cell research. Here's the dirty little secret. We have seen hope produced from stem cell research... truly amazing stuff. There is a small contingent of scientists that theorize that embyonic stem cells might be more adaptable. Sounds good, right? Well as it so happens, embryonic stem cell research has been going on this whole time, just without government funding and guess what differences the embryonic research has produced.... zero, zip, nada.

They say the majority of the embryos will come from those slated for destruction that were abandoned... when the parents get divorced or have a kid or change their minds. But no where does it state where the "minority" will come from. Abortion clinics for one comes to mind. I predict a market for "desirable" embyos.. such as athletic parents will create a demand that turns into a money stream.

I believe it is just one more way to devalue human life.

[right$pecial]

I don't know how I missed this thread but it reminds me of a debate that I was forced to participate in during High School. I was tasked with debating for the pro life crowd while my opposition took on the pro choice task. I was only uncomfortable because, unbeknownst to the teacher but known to myself, my opponent's best friend at the ripe age of 16 had already had four abortions because she didn't like the "feeling" of condoms and didn't bother with birth control pills. I said f@#$ it and went all in. I argued that if abortion was okay because it's denial could put excessive pressure on parents then it should also be legal for a mother to kill a four year old child in the event that the mother lost a job or encountered a circumstance that placed a negative financial burden on the family. My opponent argued that the child's ability to respond to stimuli negated my argument at which point I brought up the fact that children in the womb respond to music and other stimuli before their birth. I also brought up how early in the growth process a "fetus" developed a heart beat and asked how stopping a heart beat was not murder.

The above argument only applies to the stem cell research in the sense that I agree abortion clinics would profit from the, as of today, policies. Now plenty of women have miscarriages and I don't understand what is wrong with drawing a line in the sand where these fetuses could be used but only these fetuses. This would not be any different than being an organ donor.

[peytonvrscd]

Is There Any Chance Of Recovery For Your Friend?

He's doing physical therapy, but as of now he's categorized as a paraplegic.

[MYCAR47562]

Sorry To Hear That Man

[DLEIGHTY]

my cousin ,is a paraplegic too, when he was 18 he dove into the water of deckers creek here in morgantown wv, hit his head and is now in a wheelchair.

if he could be fixed by killing a fetus an unborn baby ,a baby the mother does not want id say no. we make bad choices in life and diving in 2 feet of water was a bad choice, and i feel so bad for him but it was his choice to dive .
this unborn baby had no choice at all ,it didnt chose for his mother to get knocked up ,it dont get to make the choice to live or die ,someome is making that for them,thats wrong,

a murder gets the choice ,they made the choice the kill, now they have to live by that choice they made, and live by the law if they are put to death,so be it .the murder made that choice,he knew what could happen if he killed.

[right$pecial]

I agree. I live a relatively dangerous life with motorcycles, the army, skydiving, an addiction to snowboarding and anything else that goes too fast with too little protection. I'd say I stand a fair chance of ending up in a wheelchair at some point and I wish we could find a way to help people in this situation, but there has to be a way to find an answer without soiling our hands in blood.