one meltdown, coming up

[nelson]

It's no secret we're in economic trouble. Thanks to everyone contributing your thoughts, ideas, and links to resources and information you have found.

Listening to the TV talkers, it would seem we're well on our way to recovery, albeit slightly sluggish.

Those guys are wrong. They are watching government-published numbers. Anyone who's been paying attention knows government agencies have been manipulating those numbers, via inclusion or exclusion of specific data sets, for decades now.

I'm not trying to convince anyone here. Just stating my opinion because I'm concerned about the future.

Our dollar is going to tank. There is no way around this. It may be postponed for some time yet through more of the same quantitative economic illusions, but not forever. We are going to pay the piper at some point, I'm guessing this decade, and I hope you all will prepare for it any way you can.

Because our dollar is the reserve currency, because so many institutions, even nations, store our currency as their safeguard, this time when the SHTF it's going to have global repercussions.

It's possible to limit the consequences, if our government takes swift action and enacts proper policy. But don't count on that.

Regarding that preparation, I'm no expert and I don't have much advice. Also I'm not trying to scare anyone. That said, just facing the situation pragmatically, some things seem obvious. Get your assets out of dollars. Save what you can. Eliminate as much debt as possible. After that? Move toward self reliance in every way possible, both individually and as a greater family unit. And arm yourself. Sure, with information, but also I mean literally. :) That never hurts.

Wanted to get a few thoughts out there since we've known each other for a while. You may or may not agree. But in my view we're in for some rough waters ahead!

[coolbreeze]

I think you know I agree with you Nelson.
America's recovery is a facade, and its obvious.

Here's one more anaology of why we're in DS.

Lets say it was perfectly legal for you to print your own USA dollars to get you out of a bind.
Lets say you are in debt $100,000.00. Then you decide to print $500,000.00 which you will use to:

1. Pay the loan interest on the $100,000.00 (For a while)
2. Give the remaining $400,000.00 to a local business because they are in trouble, and you are a nice guy.

Since you didn't use your newly printed cash to pay down your debt, you are now $500,000.00 in debt. Welcome to America's way of doing business.

Even if you did use the newly printed money to pay off your debt, that money would have deflated in value as it wasn't made honestly or earned. It was printed out of thin air. Counterfitted if you will.

Right now the world is functioning on counterfitted US dollars made with no real economic growth. So yes, the shit is certainly going to hit the fan. I think in a matter of months though, not years.

[MYCAR47562]

I hope i have year's, i have began preparation's. i have about 6 month's of non perishable foods put away now, i want to get at least a year. i plan to start buying seed to plant my own food, haven't decided what yet but that's only time. as for paying off debt, mine is still very young so i still have a way's to go. I have spent the last year and a half getting into shape for what could be hard times, i have armed myself the best i could without breaking the bank.


And if we don't fall on hard time yaahoo i will have a smaller grocery bill for the next few years, i will have paid off my vehicle's could start a garden and have a few guns to shoot. and this is the kicker live long enough to enjoy them all.

[nelson]

Glad to hear that Mycar, I'm doing some of the same stuff. It can't hurt, right? And maybe you're right about the timeline Coolbreeze - maybe I'm just being hopeful about the time I have to prepare. :)

[coolbreeze]

Glad to hear that Mycar, I'm doing some of the same stuff. It can't hurt, right? And maybe you're right about the timeline Coolbreeze - maybe I'm just being hopeful about the time I have to prepare. :)

I hope I'm wrong about the timeline Nelson. But one simply look around the world and they see tragic world events both natural, and man made, includng financial unfolding at hyper speed.

How is all this US debt going to get paid? Is the US going to sell off its assets when the asian and european collectors come knocking? What are we promicing those collectors behind closed doors in back room meetings to not demand their money?
It's bad Nelson, and how we've let the greatest country in the world in really all categories including R&D, Manufacturing, productivity, science, food production, and on and on and on get to these dire straights we are staring at. It's stomach turning to say the least.

The facade of recovery too is really continuing at hyper speed as well. The facts demononstrate any hint of a recovery shouldn't be the case, but again, look around and somehow America is displaying incredible wealth, and prosperity for most of our people. That's great, but it makes no sense.

[TaxmanHog]

Yet more crickets on this topic
http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2011/05/03/congress-game-chicken-debt-limit/

Now that the POTUS has entertained the masses like Cesar at the Colosseum with bread & circus, he has diverted attention while we are about to have SHTF!

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/govt.htm

[TaxmanHog]

In a letter to Congress, he also said that he now estimates he can keep the country out of default until Aug. 2, three weeks later than he estimated last month (http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/04/news/economy/debt_ceiling_deadline/index.htm?iid=EL).

The reason for the extension: The government has taken in more tax revenue than expected -- easing the country's borrowing needs.

He said, however, the pace of U.S. borrowing is still on track to hit the current $14.294 trillion debt ceiling by May 16.
<!-- REAP --><!--startclickprintexclude-->
....
The Treasury Department will suspend issuance of special Treasury securities that help state and local governments fund, among other things, infrastructure improvements, Geithner said.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/02/news/economy/debt_ceiling_borrowing_needs/

[Freethinker]

I do think you're right. I think the dollar is in trouble.

The dollar as the reserve currency has me thinking:

Remember when the Brithish Sterling was the "Reserve Currency?" When it fell onto hard times, the global economy wasn't exactly rocked to it's foundation. The world moved to a different currency for the reserve. This was the reason for our economic growth.

Turn the tables, and I think the *next* reserve currency is coming out of Asia.

No doubt we are in for hard times. The question really is how bad will it be?

Preparation is never a bad thing. Having a good supply of canned and dried food is always a good bet. There are certain food sources that have no real expiration:

Believe it or not, I heard this on the John Tesh Radio Show.

•Let’s start with the most famous: Honey. It made headlines when archeologists discovered a jar in King Tut’s tomb that was still edible! MicrobiologistSebastian Zaat says bacteria can’t grow in honey because it contains a protein called defensin-1 – which outperforms many man-made antibiotics. Honey can crystallize. The fix: Just set the jar in warm water, and stir until the grainy parts dissolve.
•Here’s another sweetener thatnever spoils: Sugar. Janice Revell started a website called StillTasty.com to help people make good choices about using food. She says that bacteria can’t survive in sugar because of its very low moisture content. If your brown sugar is more like a rock, zap it for one minute in the microwave on low.
•Forever food #3: Pure vanilla extract. It’s mostly alcohol, so bugs don’t stand a chance. At least, as long as you keep the bottle capped to preventevaporation.
•Not all non-perishables are sweet: Both salt and vinegar are so effective at staying germ-free that they’re used to preserve other things like meat and vegetables.
•The last forever-food is a well-know staple: Rice. Again, because of the low moisture content, uncooked rice will last indefinitely. The exception is brown rice. It contains enough oil to support bacteria growth, and will turn rancid over time. So, you should use it within three months - or freeze it for up to one year.

[nelson]

Taxman - so true - and the diversion is working. For now. The libs insist there is no question about it, our debt ceiling must be raised to avoid defaulting. I don't agree with this. We're going to default at some point; the longer we postpone it, the worse off we'll be. I'd actually like to see us default and gut check so that we correct ourselves sooner. A lot of people would lose money. But the truth is, we really don't deserve the credit we have.

Coolbreeze - I see it the same way. A lot is happening around the world. The middle east is the wildcard, it's exploding. We've got to focus all our attention on our own fiscal responsibility. Otherwise, whatever shape the future takes won't matter. We'll be in economic disaster. Our patented excesses do look a little silly right now.

We still have a lot of time for the economy to tank before the next election. But even as it does, will people get angry enough soon enough to vote for "anyone but Obama" ? I'm not so sure; the man has many blind supporters in addition to his many devout followers among the socialists, and his giddy media faithful. Too many independents may choose to try giving him another four years.

I read a great take on what the future holds for us economically. Definitely worth checking out:

US Economy - The Big Picture
http://financialsense.com/contributors/guild/u-s-economy-the-big-picture

[coolbreeze]

I do think you're right. I think the dollar is in trouble.

The dollar as the reserve currency has me thinking:

Remember when the Brithish Sterling was the "Reserve Currency?" When it fell onto hard times, the global economy wasn't exactly rocked to it's foundation. The world moved to a different currency for the reserve. This was the reason for our economic growth.

Turn the tables, and I think the *next* reserve currency is coming out of Asia.

No doubt we are in for hard times. The question really is how bad will it be?

Preparation is never a bad thing. Having a good supply of canned and dried food is always a good bet. There are certain food sources that have no real expiration:

Believe it or not, I heard this on the John Tesh Radio Show.

•Let’s start with the most famous: Honey. It made headlines when archeologists discovered a jar in King Tut’s tomb that was still edible! MicrobiologistSebastian Zaat says bacteria can’t grow in honey because it contains a protein called defensin-1 – which outperforms many man-made antibiotics. Honey can crystallize. The fix: Just set the jar in warm water, and stir until the grainy parts dissolve.
•Here’s another sweetener thatnever spoils: Sugar. Janice Revell started a website called StillTasty.com to help people make good choices about using food. She says that bacteria can’t survive in sugar because of its very low moisture content. If your brown sugar is more like a rock, zap it for one minute in the microwave on low.
•Forever food #3: Pure vanilla extract. It’s mostly alcohol, so bugs don’t stand a chance. At least, as long as you keep the bottle capped to preventevaporation.
•Not all non-perishables are sweet: Both salt and vinegar are so effective at staying germ-free that they’re used to preserve other things like meat and vegetables.
•The last forever-food is a well-know staple: Rice. Again, because of the low moisture content, uncooked rice will last indefinitely. The exception is brown rice. It contains enough oil to support bacteria growth, and will turn rancid over time. So, you should use it within three months - or freeze it for up to one year.

Sounds like ingredients that could be used to make unique and tasty rice pudding. I'd be content with it for a few years!
Minus the vinegar and pepper.

[nelson]

Good info Freethinker, thanks!

[Remphoto]

Thanks for sharing that info.

Btw Tesh is one of the good ones. Our company just sponsored his concert tour here and he and wife Connie Selleca are solid conservatives who have a vast record of charitable work Nice guy and excellent performer, too.

[TaxmanHog]

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/feddebt/dds.txt
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/govt.htm
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/gift/gift.htm

[TaxmanHog]

http://www.forum-political.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=184&stc=1&d=1305157931

Currently the SOT is playing games with the Governments Match funding of our pension deposits, he is --NOT-- making them, but promises to do so when the Debt ceiling is raised.

Ironic that my job involves putting business --out of business-- when they do this with taxpayer Trust Fund Dollars, what's good for the goose is good for the gander :gun:

[sburke91]

Preparation is never a bad thing. Having a good supply of canned and dried food is always a good bet. There are certain food sources that have no real expiration:


I've started slowly stocking up on a few things for the long term. Costco seems to be a source with good pricing.

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11607038&search=chefs+banquet&Mo=2&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=chefs+banquet&Ntt=chefs+banquet&No=0&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11607021&search=chefs+banquet&Mo=2&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=chefs+banquet&Ntt=chefs+banquet&No=2&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11606929&search=chefs+banquet&Mo=2&cm_re=1_en-_-Top_Left_Nav-_-Top_search&lang=en-US&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&Sp=S&N=5000043&whse=BC&Dx=mode+matchallpartial&Ntk=Text_Search&Dr=P_CatalogName:BC&Ne=4000000&D=chefs+banquet&Ntt=chefs+banquet&No=1&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Nty=1&topnav=&s=1

[TaxmanHog]

BUMP
Let the accounting games begin
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703421204576325583050561022.html

[TaxmanHog]

Daily Treasury Statement
http://fms.treas.gov/dts/index.html

05/16/2011
Daily Statement
https://www.fms.treas.gov/fmsweb/viewDTSFiles?dir=w&fname=11051600.pdf

[TaxmanHog]

We ran out of money and the FMS crashed :rofl

[MYCAR47562]

i must not understand those sheet's those number's look to small

[TaxmanHog]

i must not understand those sheet's those number's look to small

Yea,,,,,Those are MILLIONS, each entry on the report, add six zero's :rofl

[TaxmanHog]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/26/analysis-indicates-treasury-avoid-shutdown-default-debt-ceiling/?intcmp=obinsite

[MYCAR47562]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/05/26/analysis-indicates-treasury-avoid-shutdown-default-debt-ceiling/?intcmp=obinsite

That would envolve understanding business, most of these clown's are anything but business savy.


It's funny i do business with the government some and as long as it takes us to get paid i thought they were already doing this. im scared for my aging when they start this.

But it needs to happen

[TaxmanHog]

It's funny i do business with the government some and as long as it takes us to get paid i thought they were already doing this. I'm scared for my aging when they start this.

But it needs to happen

We operate under rules regarding Prompt Pay Act, all our vendors expect to be paid in a timely fashion, when they are not paid we are subject to penalty & interest due provisions. How Ironic, Timmy is gonna tell agency's to juggle payable accounts. When we are breaking legs when taxpayers do not Prompt Pay their tax liabilities, this is pathetic bull shit...do as I say not as I do.... :gun:

[TaxmanHog]

Daily Treasury Statement
http://fms.treas.gov/dts/index.html