Global warming

[The G]

Its funny that some don't believe that Global warming is happening but the shipping lanes are opening up and countrys are fighting over shipping rights.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7033498.stm

[gtrman66]

They open up there and close elsewhere... ebb and flow.

[Remphoto]

Well, according to a thread on the vrod site the earth's rotation is slowing. Bet it's ultimately blamed on mankind (excuse me,"humankind") for erecting too many tall building which are causing drag, or too many vehicles traveling counterclockwise, or whatever. Think I might become the guru of this "undisputable truth" like algore has on global warming.

[MYCAR47562]

it's bush's fault

[vrodderD]

It's amazing to me, that the human species has been on the earth for such a short period of time and the earth is 4.5 billion years old, that anyone believes we could affect the climate to that extreme or that we could be the cause of the earths slowing of rotation. The universe is 15 billion years old, as far as we can tell. There is more to this than people know but unfortunately politics and agenda's get in the way of real science and logic.

[cajun]

Amen brother, I don't know if the tree huggers are really that ignorant,or if it's just about money. I know Algore is makin a killing.

[nelson]

This issue is getting very interesting.

Whether you believe global warming is taking place, or not, there is no doubt it's big business.

In 2008, the International Energy Agency determined 45 TRILLION dollars is needed to begin to fix global warming (Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/06/study-45-trillion-investm_n_105600.html
)). This would start the process of saving the world and preventing all nature and humanity from eventually dying out. Just last week NASA scientist Jim Hanson said it's the USA's responsibility to take the lead in this effort, and he said Obama will have only 4 years to set the example needed to save Earth (guardian.co.uk (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/jan/18/jim-hansen-obama)). Sounds like a very big push to me.

Meanwhile: "At December's U.N. Global Warming conference in Poznan, Poland, 650 of the world's top climatologists stood up and said man-made global warming is a media generated myth without basis." (John Foren (http://www.mlive.com/opinion/flint/index.ssf/2009/01/its_time_to_pray_for_global_wa.html)) Apparently, according to these climatologists, our planet is actually finishing up a long warm phase, and about to enter what will be an ice age.

We are seeing virtually no global warming dissent (http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/36010144.html) reported in the mainstream media.

What will Obama do? It is widely expected that he will spend massively to prevent global warming and save all mankind. Is this necessary?

[MYCAR47562]

Yea I Don't Think I Believe It To Many Of The Smart People Saying It Isn't True

[TaxmanHog]

What will Obama do? It is widely expected that he will spend massively to prevent global warming and save all mankind. Is this necessary?

Do nothing is what I hope happens, let nature take it's course.
Adaptation to our environment is the solution to what ever mother nature has in store for us.

In the mean time, build Nukes, Gas-Fire, Coal & Green Energy Plants where ever the power supply does not meet load demand.

Let the local community take responsibility for siting the facility.

Charge the local rate payers the true cost of operating the plant.

---
Navigation of the newly opened waterways should be taken advantage.

[Engels]

I'm pretty sure global warming is taking place. I'm not so sure how much, if anything, it has to do with what comes out of people's cars or power plant chimneys.

The scientific data do show that it has gotten a couple of degrees warmer over the past few decades. And glaciers etc. do seem to be shrinking. But making the link between that and industrial production - not so sure. And let us not forget that the earth has gone through many warming and cooling cycles previously, when there was little or no human activity to influence things.

That said, we really ought to do more to cut down on pollution anywhere we can.

In some respects the whole "Human caused global warming" thing is a bit of a boondoggle: Because IF the human-caused GW people are right, then the only solution would be to pretty much eliminate most human activity. Not really a workable option.

On the other hand, the anti-GW people simply use this issue to poke fun at the entire environmental record. Which is also a mistake. Because in many parts of the industrialized world, actions by governments, industries, and citizens have already accomplished a lot in terms of removing toxins from the environment. And places like southern California would be virtually uninhabitable if we HADN'T done something about cleaning up tailpipe emissions.

When I changed a lot of my lightbulbs to CFL, I immediately noticed my power bill decreased by about 10% a month. And I haven't had to change a light bulb in more than a year (previously it was 2-3 a month.) If reducing my electricity bill means less acid rain in Pennsylvania or New York - thats great.

We ought to focus on what is doable - and worry less about the great unknown.

[MYCAR47562]

I'm pretty sure global warming is taking place. I'm not so sure how much, if anything, it has to do with what comes out of people's cars or power plant chimneys.

The scientific data do show that it has gotten a couple of degrees warmer over the past few decades. And glaciers etc. do seem to be shrinking. But making the link between that and industrial production - not so sure. And let us not forget that the earth has gone through many warming and cooling cycles previously, when there was little or no human activity to influence things.

That said, we really ought to do more to cut down on pollution anywhere we can.

In some respects the whole "Human caused global warming" thing is a bit of a boondoggle: Because IF the human-caused GW people are right, then the only solution would be to pretty much eliminate most human activity. Not really a workable option.

On the other hand, the anti-GW people simply use this issue to poke fun at the entire environmental record. Which is also a mistake. Because in many parts of the industrialized world, actions by governments, industries, and citizens have already accomplished a lot in terms of removing toxins from the environment. And places like southern California would be virtually uninhabitable if we HADN'T done something about cleaning up tailpipe emissions.

When I changed a lot of my lightbulbs to CFL, I immediately noticed my power bill decreased by about 10% a month. And I haven't had to change a light bulb in more than a year (previously it was 2-3 a month.) If reducing my electricity bill means less acid rain in Pennsylvania or New York - thats great.

We ought to focus on what is doable - and worry less about the great unknown.

OK I HAVE TO AGREE HERE I DO BELIEVE THE WORLD IS GOING THROUGH A WARMING UP STAGE BUT AS YOU SAID WE HAVE DONE THE THROUGHOUT HISTORY WHAT I FEEL IS FALSE IS THAT IT'S MAN MADE.

[Remphoto]

I'm pretty sure global warming is taking place. I'm not so sure how much, if anything, it has to do with what comes out of people's cars or power plant chimneys.

The scientific data do show that it has gotten a couple of degrees warmer over the past few decades. And glaciers etc. do seem to be shrinking. But making the link between that and industrial production - not so sure. And let us not forget that the earth has gone through many warming and cooling cycles previously, when there was little or no human activity to influence things.

That said, we really ought to do more to cut down on pollution anywhere we can.

In some respects the whole "Human caused global warming" thing is a bit of a boondoggle: Because IF the human-caused GW people are right, then the only solution would be to pretty much eliminate most human activity. Not really a workable option.

On the other hand, the anti-GW people simply use this issue to poke fun at the entire environmental record. Which is also a mistake. Because in many parts of the industrialized world, actions by governments, industries, and citizens have already accomplished a lot in terms of removing toxins from the environment. And places like southern California would be virtually uninhabitable if we HADN'T done something about cleaning up tailpipe emissions.

When I changed a lot of my lightbulbs to CFL, I immediately noticed my power bill decreased by about 10% a month. And I haven't had to change a light bulb in more than a year (previously it was 2-3 a month.) If reducing my electricity bill means less acid rain in Pennsylvania or New York - thats great.

We ought to focus on what is doable - and worry less about the great unknown.


Wow, you surprised me here. I agree with most everything you said. It is unfortunate that people who express concern with the Global Warming Theory are sometimes labeled as being opposed to a clean earth. None of us want to live in a dirty environment and we all want to save money. Personally, we own a MINI which gets 40+ mpg in addition to a couple of good mileage motorcycles of course. And we use the CFL light bulbs, too, though they make my complexion look funny.:)

[Engels]

And we use the CFL light bulbs, too, though they make my complexion look funny.

That's strange: They make my gin taste funny.

There does seem to be some ridiculous "linking" in the environmental movement, some of which has resulted in bad policy decisions - like the whole ethanol thing.

On the other hand, I think that car makers and other industries would be better off, both financially and politically, if they hadn't dug in their heels against the calls for making higher mileage and cleaner cars.

Speaking of which - I remain extremely skeptical of the whole electric car/hybrid thing. Its difficult for me to see how packing a car with a half ton or lead batteries is going to make it much more efficient. And real world tests seem to show that cars like the Prius get worse mileage in normal use than other well-engineered small cars.

Lastly, here in the US a lot of the "cleaner environment" thing comes down to personal responsibility. I know people who store old gasoline, paint, and used motor oil in their garages - and when it is time to move a lot of this stuff ends up in landfills. Its easy to stand up and scream for the chemical plant across town to clean up their act - but some people find it hard to clean up (literally) their own back yard.

[Remphoto]

That's strange: They make my gin taste funny.

There does seem to be some ridiculous "linking" in the environmental movement, some of which has resulted in bad policy decisions - like the whole ethanol thing.

On the other hand, I think that car makers and other industries would be better off, both financially and politically, if they hadn't dug in their heels against the calls for making higher mileage and cleaner cars.

Speaking of which - I remain extremely skeptical of the whole electric car/hybrid thing. Its difficult for me to see how packing a car with a half ton or lead batteries is going to make it much more efficient. And real world tests seem to show that cars like the Prius get worse mileage in normal use than other well-engineered small cars.

Lastly, here in the US a lot of the "cleaner environment" thing comes down to personal responsibility. I know people who store old gasoline, paint, and used motor oil in their garages - and when it is time to move a lot of this stuff ends up in landfills. Its easy to stand up and scream for the chemical plant across town to clean up their act - but some people find it hard to clean up (literally) their own back yard.

Again, I find myself agreeing with you. When Honda was building its now discontinued hybrid Accord a conventional 4 cylinder gas version got nearly as good of gas mileage. And it had no toxic cesspool of a battery pack to dispose of in 10 years. Hybrids get the best mileage in stop and go driving but have little advantage on the open road.

The area in which we live is extremely conservative and agricultural. People take their conservation seriously and our recycling program is huge. This probably has to do with respect for the land and frugality of the people. To me these are sensible environmental efforts. Drastically curbing/trading carbon emissions because of a controversial theory that they might contribute to global warming is over the top IMHO. So is using this as a divisive political football which both parties have kicked at one another.

[nelson]

I remain extremely skeptical of the whole electric car/hybrid thing.From an environmental standpoint, your skepticism of hybrid vehicles is well-placed. They sell the illusion of efficiency by front-loading and postponing inefficiencies. But, I believe hybrids are a solution... to an entirely different problem. (I'd love to start a thread about this, and maybe I will.)

The scientific data do show that it has gotten a couple of degrees warmer over the past few decades. And glaciers etc. do seem to be shrinking. But making the link between that and industrial production - not so sure. And let us not forget that the earth has gone through many warming and cooling cycles previously, when there was little or no human activity to influence things.Absolutely correct. So, here's why global warming is ridiculous. Any scientist can point at Mercury this moment and declare that, based on scientific observation of recent data, Mercury is trending in direction X. The scientist would be correct. But when he declares that we've got to stop it, or there will be impending planetary disaster, that's when we know he's off his rocker.

Because in many parts of the industrialized world, actions by governments, industries, and citizens have already accomplished a lot in terms of removing toxins from the environment. And places like southern California would be virtually uninhabitable if we HADN'T done something about cleaning up tailpipe emissions.

When I changed a lot of my lightbulbs to CFL, I immediately noticed my power bill decreased by about 10% a month. And I haven't had to change a light bulb in more than a year (previously it was 2-3 a month.) If reducing my electricity bill means less acid rain in Pennsylvania or New York - thats great.

We ought to focus on what is doable - and worry less about the great unknown.Ok, that's a fair point. But for the massive human effort of our time to be invested in what could at best be a marginal energy / environmental impact just seems like a complete farce. I think the people pushing for this effort are wearing blinders.

[DLEIGHTY]

its cold here in wv, i could use some of that golbal warming here.i like the to see
80 deg
i dont Believe mankind can do this . the surface of the earth has changed alot in the past billion years and it is still changing . but we can say it is Bushs fault!
if it makes you feel better.

[vrodderD]

I wish it would warm to 80 for few days. I sure would like to go for a ride without my testicles freezing up and falling off. :D