The ACLU

[nelson]

My true feelings about the ACLU? I made this sticker and had a few thousand printed:

http://oursippy.com/stuff/aclu-qaeda.gif

[The_Man]

Nelson,
As much as I despise the agenda and tactics of the ACLU I would have to refrain from comparing them to a terrorist group.

[Teiwaz]

Interesting group. Over here we have similar organisations. The Australian Council for Civil Liberties is an umbrella organisation for the three state councils, without the substance of the US ACLU and not to be mistaken for the far-right Australian Civil Liberties Union.

I actually think these organisations serve a purpose. If someone isn't exerting pressure to pull the pendulum one way, it will swing the other way unopposed, and probably further than is good for any one of us.

In their passionate support for minorities and their focus on implementing perfect theories on civil liberties I think they tend to assume all of the people they advocate for are like some version of the "noble savage" - being strange to us perhaps but having only good qualities, or to the extent they behave badly, it is because of the Administration's conduct, abuses and neglect and not their fault.

It is natural to empathise with the subjects of your cause, but it is equally important to realise that implementation of these perfect theories is complicated by harsh realities that exist in the real world. For example, the need to effectively investigate threats to national security runs counter to concepts of individual privacy. The Bill of Rights does not say there will be NO interference with privacy, it says, I think (and please correct me if I am wrong) that there will be no UNWARRANTED interference. It seems to me that as information is uncovered that indicates a person my be of interest to investigators, greater interference becomes warranted. What is "warranted" in the circumstances will always be a bone of contention. If I was investigating these sorts of things, I am sure I would get extremely frustrated by the restrictions on what I could and could not do, but if I was innocent and BEING investigated, I am sure I would be horrified by what investigators CAN do. All depends on where you stand, and maybe, like a good compromise, if NO-ONE is happy perhaps you have balanced it about right.

Similarly, you just can't have totally open Government. It can't work for a hundred reasons, some purely logistical, others related to things like law enforcement and national security. Governments, all of them, will ALWAYS try to be more secretive than they should. It's the "we're far more clever than you, you can't handle the truth, just trust us to look after it boys and girls" mentality, and frankly, like all good grey areas, there is SOME basis for this attitude.

Comparing the ACLU to Al Quaeda is probably a little harsh isn't it? The sort of people who are Al Quaeda operatives can probably use the skirts of the ACLU to hide behind by crying "discrimination" and "persecution" on the basis of their membership of an ethnic and/or religious group and the ACLU is probably primed to leap to their defence on those grounds, but that does not make them a terrorist support group.

Having said that, I like your sticker. It is clever and makes a point very simply, even it it is basically inaccurate. It seeks to demonise them and marginalise their influence by branding them as an extremist group. It is no different to the over the top allegations thay probably make and is all part of the cut and thrust of competing ideologies in a robustly free democracy.

[nelson]

It's not a pleasant thought to be sure. But I am convinced they're in league with the terrorist enemy. 'War makes strange bedfellows.'

[Teiwaz]

Hey Nelson, quick mate, I just saw a commie run under your bed! :eek: ;)

[nelson]

Woops missed your post Teiwaz. Thanks for the comments on the sticker. There is no better way to get a reader thinking about underlying truths than shocking with a brief statement. This one of course is meant to find similarity between the ACLU and AL QAEDA, not necessarily equating them, but simply connecting. And according to the actions of the ACLU, as opposed to their abstract or marketing collateral, I think the sticker is dead on.

That said, there's no reason to oppose a group truly dedicated to liberty and defending the rights of citizens. We absolutely need that. But with their historical ties to communism, their radical leftist positions, and their inconsistencies in defending the rights of all citizens, I do not think the ACLU is this group.

[nelson]

Hey Nelson, quick mate, I just saw a commie run under your bed! :eek: ;)LOL where?! One sec while I grab my shotgun. :)

[The G]

I see the right throwing stones at the ACLU, but they don't see the case they've (ACLU) have won for the right .... what's up with this ....

[The_Man]

I see the right throwing stones at the ACLU, but they don't see the case they've (ACLU) have won for the right .... what's up with this ....

I think if you do an honest assessment of the cases brought by the ACLU it will be obvious that the ACLU has a left wing agenda. Their record speaks volumes.

[The G]

I didnt say A LOT but they work for issue on the other side of the fence too

[nelson]

It's true that with token cases, the ACLU does present a guise of impartiality - but they don't do a very good job.

Because while our American soldiers are being held in Camp Pendleton on charges that originated from the accusations of Iraqi villagers... the ACLU has ignored them, and continues to fight for the rights of non-citizen terrorists. A strange coincidence?

I don't think so. If the ACLU were not agenda driven, then you would not see the Alliance Defense Fund and other groups springing up to counter their leftist onslaught.

Both Al-Qaeda and the ACLU hate America as it exists and has existed - a conservative people in a nation founded on the principles of Christianity. Both seek to change America by defeating it.

[The G]

Even during war there are rules to follow, hope they find the boys not guilty.

[The G]

It has to be tough to see your buddies killed and still be in controls.... Don't know if I could do it !

[nelson]

Even during war there are rules to follow,I totally agree, The G. But I do think we ought to trust the word of our guys over that of foreigners. Anyway, my point was, when a couple of villagers of questionable origin in Iraq make accusations against US soldiers, and suddenly American citizens are being held indefinitely in solitary confinement in Camp Pendleton - even before charges were brought against them - well, the ACLU and the media is nowhere to be found. But you let a muslim terrorist cry racism or discrimination...