Estate Tax go away (don't come again another day)

[nelson]

Proponents of Estate Tax Repeal Grudgingly Accept Compromise
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200502,00.html

Bush stepped in the right direction when his gradual repeal of the estate tax was passed. Each year the tax would decrease, finally being eliminated altogether in 2010. Only problem is, under his plan it comes right back in 2011. huh?? :confused:

Capitalism works. Socialism does not. Those who work hard ought to keep their earnings, and those who do not ought to eat the consequences... one of the many hard facts of life... but leftists want this turned around. Nevermind that corporations and wealthy individuals are socially responsible. Nevermind the US being the most charitable nation in the history of the world. They want government mandated wealth redistribution. 'Gasp, can't let those evil rich people actually... be rich!'

This compromise is garbage and probably won't pass as it is currently written. You know the Senate Democrats are going to pull out the "evil rich people taking from the oppressed poor" card, and the media will continue helping them ram it down everyone's throats until polls show enough people buying it.

Not only is the tax code unfair, it's also far too complicated and as a result not very productive. Any capitalist worth his salary knows that tax revenues increase when taxes are reasonable and easy to pay, and decrease when they are unreasonable and too damned complicated for a rocket scientist.

If our society weren't so fat, happy, and entertainment-centric, and if taxes weren't withheld before the public realized the income, I believe there would have been a revolt over the tax issue long ago.

Repeal the greedy estate tax. Let those who achieve success... reap it. Let them care for their families as they wish to. This approach will come back to us all in the form of charity, education, general philanthropy, and a more healthy attitude toward the government of our little experiment in the West.

[The_Man]

I could not have said it better even though I wanted to.
Thanks

[The G]

Its a good deal if you the top 1 % living in America, ya take care of the rich and to hell with the rest.

[The_Man]

You might want to reconsider your math it affects much more than the top 1%.

[The G]

ok 1.5 %

[Brewski]

I could not have said it better even though I wanted to.
Thanks
Right on!!!

[The G]

This is old but give you and idea on just how far this tax is to the working class.

http://www.cbpp.org/2-6-01tax3.htm

[The_Man]

You are right in that this is old. Nice try though The G

http://new.heritage.org/Research/Taxes/WM5.cfm

Problem is the tax cuts worked!!!

[The G]

How do tax cut work and for who ??????

[The_Man]

Ok The G you ask for it

Let’s put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men—the poorest—would pay nothing; the fifth would pay $1, the sixth would pay $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18, and the tenth man—the richest—would pay $59.

That’s what they decided to do. The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement—until one day, the owner threw them a curve (in tax language a tax cut). “Since you are all such good customers,” he said, “I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.” So now dinner for the ten only cost $80.00.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six—the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his “fair share?”

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal. So the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay. And so the fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the tenth man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59.

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. “I only got a dollar out of the $20,” declared the sixth man, but he, (pointing to the tenth) got $7!”. “Yeah, that’s right,” exclaimed the fifth man, “I only saved a dollar, too, ........It’s unfair that he got seven times more than me!”. That’s true!” shouted the seventh man, why should he get $7 back when I got only $2?” The wealthy get all the breaks!”. Wait a minute,” yelled the first four men in unison, “We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!”

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night he didn’t show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late what was very important. They were FIFTY-TWO DOLLARS short of paying the bill!

Imagine that!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college instructors, is how the tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. Where would that leave the rest?


http://www.freemarketproject.org/commentary/2006/com20060111.asp

http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/Columns/y2003/Wesburytaxcuts.html

http://www.areavoices.com/hottalk/?blog=2320

[The G]

I was talking about my link being dated 2001, looks like yours is the same.

Good Story. bottom line the cutting the estate isnt for the working cl**** that includes me. Most all things this Prez has done is not for me.

[The_Man]

You are right that it might not directly affect the working class and that includes me as well. But I think that it has been proven historically that tax cuts are a good thing for the US economy and when the economy is good all benefit.

Only one of my links was that old and the data is constantly coming in to support the benefits of the Bush tax cuts.

[nelson]

Really like that analogy, The_Man. It illustrates in clear terms that even I can understand! :) Thanks for that.

I do not think the tax issue is about class warfare. There is always someone with a bigger house and a nicer lawn, so what? The issue is about one of the reasons Americans revolted in the first place -- we have an unfair tax code. The estate tax is just the most greedy component of it. One look at the behemoth IRS convinces me that the tax collecting industry is way too big for its britches.

When I die, why should the government take the lion's share of my estate, which I will have worked my entire life to build?

[The_Man]

Nelson, thanks for the comments, but the analogy was a forwarded email from a friend of mine a couple of years ago and is as true today as then. My friend is a wealthy man and is also one of the most generous persons I know and I don’t mean in just the financial way. I just don’t see any good coming from the way the left wants to play the classes against one another.

[The G]

Tax cuts do nothing but make the rich ...rich the business owner has to have a product to sell and a buyer with money ... they try to sell this to us working American's that these cuts help...PLEASE

[The_Man]

Ok The G,
I think I have presented enough information to support the argument that shows the positive impact that tax cuts have on the economy. I will entertain any data that you are willing to present that tax increases have a positive long-term effect on the free market. Which is the main reason that the US has prospered and that you and I share in the benefits of such a system. I have had the fortune to travel to many other countries of the world and assure you that we have it pretty good in comparison.

[The G]

Thats easy.......

thousand rich guys with $1000.00

Million middle class with a $1000.00

Who has more affect on the economy ?

[The_Man]

So you suggest robbing from those who have earned their money and redistributing it to those that have not or a society in which everyone earns the same no matter what they do?

[The G]

No I do not.... just making my point

[The_Man]

Thats easy.......

thousand rich guys with $1000.00

Million middle class with a $1000.00

Who has more affect on the economy ?

Like I said before you seem to have a problem with the math.

1,000 X 1,000 = 1,000,000
1,000,000 X 1,000 = 1,000,000,000
The two examples you use do not start off with the same base line $ amount.
So to frame the question as to which would have a bigger effect on the economy use an equal amount and I will be glad to answer.

[The G]

you get the point. the idea of tax cuts to boost the economy or produce jobs is just a crock. If this was the case we should be wide open right now, instead we see the intrest rates steadly climbing. Theses ideas are played out in the media to help sell this as an answer to our problems. If you look at the last 30 years when was the best up turn in the economy ? Thats it Wild Bill's. I'm sure I'll hear that the frame work that Bush senior set in place was responable for the upturn..... if so his son would be doing it right now.... NOT

[The_Man]

No I do not get your point other than the fact that you dislike Bush.
5.3% GDP growth in the latest quarter, not to mention a historically low unemployment rate of 4.6%, which is lower than the average of the 1960s, 70s, 80s or the 1990s. Over the past 12 months, manufacturing production has increased by 5.5%. Although interest rates are on the rise they are and have been historically low. I too would always like to see even better economic numbers but if you look at the last 12 months of the Clinton presidency today’s economic numbers aren’t that bad.

[Teiwaz]

What about your debt/deficit? Pretty horrendously high isn't it? And I don't get how you increase spending and cut taxes. Unless you say cutting taxes will net increase government revenues through increased economic activity. Not about the estate tax I know, but this thread seems to have grown wider.

[The G]

So you suggest robbing from those who have earned their money and redistributing it to those that have not or a society in which everyone earns the same no matter what they do? Sorry for missing this earlier, but what do they do with ALL the taxes now????


Redistribute ???

[The G]

So how did those tax cuts work ???? :rofl: yes we need that rolling smiling.

Damn I was right :moon:

[vrodderD]

The estate tax is a crock. It punishes small business people such as farmers.

Federal income tax is a crock. If you want to talk real tax breaks, you should talk about the payroll tax and state and local as well. I like the premise of a fair tax, straight percentage across the board.

The Federal interest rate is actually at its lowest in history. The fact that the banks are raising their credit card rates are another matter. That is because everyone has slowed down on spending, is saving every penny they can and not taking out loans due to the economy.

Obama has a great opportunity for his administration to do something about this. Raising taxes is the worst thing he can do right now, and he won't because it will only make the economy worse. Time will tell if he and the Democratic led congress will balance the budget or ruin it like the Republicans did these past 8 years.

[MYCAR47562]

it's a wait and see i guess.

[The G]

Estate planing,gifting and theres other means to cut down on the tax hit.

The attempt to repeal the estate tax was just another gift for the rich from GW. The republican party has never been for the working man its all about the rich guy.

[Remphoto]

Estate planing,gifting and theres other means to cut down on the tax hit.

The republican party has never been for the working man its all about the rich guy.

Great example of Liberal's favorite card to play -- Class Warfare (second only to the Race Card). Wonder one of the reasons family farms and muli-generational small businesses disappeared? -- Estate Tax. Libs want to keep people poor and dependent so as to remain on the Liberal Plantation.

[The G]

Class Warfare....... this is what we've had for 8 years.

Would changing estate tax bill affect you or anyone one on this forum ?


Do a search on changes to farm Subsidies and see how the Millionaire farmers are screwing the system. This is why the small farmers are disappearing.

Heres one http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/6856.html

[MYCAR47562]

doesnt effect me by any means i live in a townhome with less than a piss puddle's worth of land.

[Remphoto]

doesnt effect me by any means i live in a townhome with less than a piss puddle's worth of land.

Don't sell yourself short. You are young, obviously very knowledgeable and this is America, which still is a land of opportunity despite what the Press and Dems might be saying. Those who complain about our Country and wait for the Government to do something for them will continue to be dependents and will not succeed economically. People who take responsiblity for their actions and look for ways to make lemons out of lemonaide have great chance for economic success. It still takes some luck and losts of pluck, but this is still the greatest place on earth with the freedoms to be what you want to be.

[Remphoto]

Would changing estate tax bill affect you or anyone one on this forum ?

Not me as far as my own estate, but it will certainly affect my boss, whose family controls our relatively small company. It also may determine whether our company remains independent or gets acquired, thereby putting lots of people out of work, including me. The Libs have never figured out that the rich people, who they love to denigrate, are who make the jobs and opportunities for the rest of us. They also pay the majority of the taxes in this country.

[The G]

Demand for a product produces job.......... not tax cuts.

Prime example is the big three, they can build automobiles till their blue in the face, but if now one is buying their product employees get lay off. This spin that tax cuts produce job is BS.

[Remphoto]

Of course I disagree with you on tax cuts which you are inferring relate to income taxes.

However, the topic of this thread is estate taxes and I think the impact of those on jobs is pretty obvious as laid out in the illustration provided.

[MYCAR47562]

Don't sell yourself short. You are young, obviously very knowledgeable and this is America, which still is a land of opportunity despite what the Press and Dems might be saying. Those who complain about our Country and wait for the Government to do something for them will continue to be dependents and will not succeed economically. People who take responsiblity for their actions and look for ways to make lemons out of lemonaide have great chance for economic success. It still takes some luck and losts of pluck, but this is still the greatest place on earth with the freedoms to be what you want to be.

oh im happy where i live i didnt look around enough before i bought the house just cause it was such a good deal personally i would have rather had a trailor on 10 acres then a townhome on non. but i am looking into buying the land next to my house there's about 6 acres of woods that a church owns right now. but just depends on what my job looks like in a couple of years