Time to nationalize GM?

[TaxmanHog]

Some suggest that nationalizing troubled automakers would be best way to save struggling industry.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/02/news/companies/autos_nationalization/index.htm

NO, I strongly disagree, no more good money after bad, it is time to let them file a chapter-7.

:gun:

We need less capacity during this economic re-organization, if it is meant to be, a phoenix will arise from the ashes of GM's, starting fresh & new when the economy can sustain the production potential.

[The G]

I have to support my boys and GM is cheaper to bail out than the banks.

[Remphoto]

We'll all enjoy driving those government made cars -- like the East German Trabant. Personally, I'll take a Honda.:D

[TaxmanHog]

I understand your sentiment,

Trust me, in 23 years I having seen first hand many a business failures, blind faith (Theirs, not yours) is not going to pull GM out of the condition they are in.

I have, on many occasions been thanked by a (former) business owners after compelling them to execute the unthinkable, folding the their business, or folding it for them with a seizure, it is painful often they can not see the futility or unrealistic expectations of their goal.

After the dust has settled, have been cut loose of unsustainable burdens, go on still using their technical skills, knowledge to prosper in successor enterprises.

Some do not, but having learned of the experience, are more understanding of the burdens their future employers struggle with, keeping a successful business afloat.

[right$pecial]

Do you guys ever think about how allowing these collapses would affect your personal lives? I have. I would rather drive around in a model T and barter for twenty years than continue to bail out these failing industries and that is a worst case scenario. Someone would step up to fill the gap.

On a side note. I'm boycotting GM if this BS continues and I bet I won't be the only one.

[gtrman66]

My wife drives a Ford, I ride Harleys. No bailouts there... yet.

[Remphoto]

Do you guys ever think about how allowing these collapses would affect your personal lives? I have. I would rather drive around in a model T and barter for twenty years than continue to bail out these failing industries and that is a worst case scenario. Someone would step up to fill the gap.

On a side note. I'm boycotting GM if this BS continues and I bet I won't be the only one.

I think they already have started boycotting them. People are concerned about the warranty and buying from a failing company. Saw a recent story that Ford, which has not taken funds, is gaining business from Ford and GM. Even had to put on a second shift for the F150. Did you catch that, environmentalists?

[Johnny Dangerously]

I have to support my boys and GM is cheaper to bail out than the banks.
Perhaps... if you don't take into account the gubment factor... You union boys just don't get it. Don't you realize where your union dues go? Why do you think the Dems are all so cozy with you guys? You think they really give one whit about the "working man"? Of course not, they only care about getting the working man's money.

Your dues may go to other things, but it should not be lost on you that they also go to support democrats and their causes. Just another form of quasi taxation. The dems want you to think their causes are aligned with yours, when in reality they are doing the same thing to you that they do to minorities and the poor - pandering to get your vote. Trust me, once they have eliminated all political competition which is their ultimate plan, the blinders will come off and you'll see what they're REALLY up to...

[nelson]

Time to nationalize GM?
Some suggest that nationalizing troubled automakers would be best way to save struggling industry.

What folly! No, it's not time to nationalize anything. I agree, guys. Let GM fail. I realize having an automaker running is important for national security. But we put ourselves in this position, now we should suffer the consequences. That's how you learn lessons - not by constantly bailing everyone out. Let the business fail! Those "boys" don't have a "right" to their jobs. Let someone else start a new automaker, plant it wherever they want, hire individual employees (not a union - that's a recipe for failure) and demonstrate how to succeed in this environment. I totally agree right$special, someone will step up to fill the gap. If they can do it within our over-regulated, hyper-legal, over-taxed, currently business-toxic environment, even better.

[Johnny Dangerously]

Do you guys ever think about how allowing these collapses would affect your personal lives? I have. I would rather drive around in a model T and barter for twenty years than continue to bail out these failing industries and that is a worst case scenario. Someone would step up to fill the gap.

On a side note. I'm boycotting GM if this BS continues and I bet I won't be the only one.
Ha! Beat you to it.

I haven't owned an American car since the 80s when Honda started making them cheaper and better. I WANT to buy American, but I'm not going to do it just because it's American. I'll do it if and when they can produce a equal or superior product for the same or less money. That's just how I roll (on foreign wheels)... :coffee

[Johnny Dangerously]

Nelson - is that avatar from when you got busted as a war protestor?:rofl:rofl

[MYCAR47562]

I Hold No Allegance To Any Domestic Car Maker Ive Had To Many Bad Experiences Dealing And Working For Them

[MYCAR47562]

Well Except Dodge No Experience's There But I Sure As Hell Wouldn't Drive One Of Their Pos's

[The G]

Perhaps... if you don't take into account the gubment factor... You union boys just don't get it. Don't you realize where your union dues go? Why do you think the Dems are all so cozy with you guys? You think they really give one whit about the "working man"? Of course not, they only care about getting the working man's money.

Your dues may go to other things, but it should not be lost on you that they also go to support democrats and their causes. Just another form of quasi taxation. The dems want you to think their causes are aligned with yours, when in reality they are doing the same thing to you that they do to minorities and the poor - pandering to get your vote. Trust me, once they have eliminated all political competition which is their ultimate plan, the blinders will come off and you'll see what they're REALLY up to...I'll keep paying my dues, if not you guys will be in charge again and the middle class will be working for $4.00 an hour and 60 hrs a week.

[nelson]

Nelson - is that avatar from when you got busted as a war protestor?:rofl:rofl:rofl

That's the mug shot of me smiling just after I robbed the poor, impoverished American middle class.

[MYCAR47562]

I'll keep paying my dues, if not you guys will be in charge again and the middle class will be working for $4.00 an hour and 60 hrs a week.

SO WHAT YOUR REALLY SAYING IS YOU WANT TO BE PAID MORE THAN YOUR WORTH? IS 60 HOURS TO MUCH FOR YOU? I HAD NO PROBLEM WORKING 80 HOURS A WEEK FOR OVER A YEAR BACK WHEN I WAS WORKING FOR TOYOTA AS I KNEW IT WAS WHAT IT TOOK( ACTUALLY IN MY CASE IT WAS BY CHOICE BUT THEY NEEDED ME THAT MUCH SO I WAS THERE).

[Johnny Dangerously]

:rofl

That's the mug shot of me smiling just after I robbed the poor, impoverished American middle class.

Awesome!!! Next time you go on one of those trips let me know. I want to go too!!! :rofl:rofl:rofl

[gtrman66]

I'll keep paying my dues, if not you guys will be in charge again and the middle class will be working for $4.00 an hour and 60 hrs a week.

Yep, you'll be salary like me. On call 24/7... averages out to minimum wage on a busy week.

[Remphoto]

I'll keep paying my dues, if not you guys will be in charge again and the middle class will be working for $4.00 an hour and 60 hrs a week.


You won't get much sympathy on here about working 60 hours a week. :) And I don' t understand how a person can accept being paid the same as the sloth who works next to him. A merit shop provides pay based on performance, not some common amount that applies to everyone, including the laziest guy in the job class. When I was in the IBOFO the lack of personal recognition and the pressure to be mediocre drove me up the wall. IMHO, the whole union concept is flawed -- like the socialistic model upon which it is akin.

[The G]

You won't get much sympathy on here about working 60 hours a week. :) And I don' t understand how a person can accept being paid the same as the sloth who works next to him. A merit shop provides pay based on performance, not some common amount that applies to everyone, including the laziest guy in the job class. When I was in the IBOFO the lack of personal recognition and the pressure to be mediocre drove me up the wall. IMHO, the whole union concept is flawed -- like the socialistic model upon which it is akin.
:rofl

[nelson]

I'm with you, Rem. I think it's fear that makes men operate this way; the fear instilled in members that if they don't band together, they are individually too weak and small and unskilled to stand on their own.

Nationalizing GM or any automaker, in any case, but especially without changing anything, will be an abysmal nightmare. The government will now sponsor union behavior!

Just like today in union shops, workers will not be earning their jobs and pay based on their own individual skill and talent, but will be given these things, based on simply being members of the holy union. And since their skills don't earn the job, each worker can easily have his job taken away. So, all workers increasingly look to decision makers as "them," instead of operating as if everyone is part of the same team.

The difference is, this primitive level of organization will be bought and paid for by the US government. So officially, we as a society will be sanctioning it. The official policy of the US government becomes: a descent into mediocrity.

[TaxmanHog]

fox GM Warns It May Not Be Able to Stay Afloat (http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/market-overview/update--gm-gives-going-concern-warning/)


cnn GM: 'Substantial doubt' about survival (http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/05/news/companies/GM_10K/index.htm?postversion=2009030513)

[cajun]

I don't understand the UAW, the Teamsters have taken pay consessions to keep the truckin companies afloat. And they don't make near what the auto makers do.

[The G]

They have already given concession and working on more. It would be nice if you did your home work before posting crap like this. I hope they don't have to take pay cut like the POS Republicans ask for. Let them get out on these lines and see if these employees are making too much money. You wonder why I hate the Republicans and their quest to beat the middle class.

[cajun]

WOW "G" what kind of concessions did they make? Then you say in the very next sentence, i hope they don't have to take a pay cut.

[The G]

WOW "G" what kind of concessions did they make? Then you say in the very next sentence, i hope they don't have to take a pay cut.Sub pay for one

I have a issue with pay cuts only because the REP ask for it, again try to keep the middle class down.


Heres one link

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/gettelfinger-no-wage-concessions-bailout-74369/

[Remphoto]

From what I've been reading the UAW has dug in on work rules even more than on the pay issue. From an employer's POV, work rules can really hamper a company's effort to be competitive and efficient. For example, a credit union near us is unionized. Its president is a former colleague of mine and he pulls his hair out over the "that isn't my job" stance of his workers. For instance if a delinquent customer comes into the loan department to pay on his loan, he must talk to a collector because it is not the loan clerks job to handle collections. Loan support staff cannot make business calls because it is not their job, etc., etc. As a result customer service and revenue generation suffer. It puts the credit union at a disadvantage compared to other financial services companies. Did management mistreat its employees resulting in the credit union becoming a union shop? No --it was originally sponsored by one of the Beg 3 factories and the union shop came as part of the package.

[The G]

Got a link to the POV issue ?