Things Thos. Jefferson DIDN'T say, Part Deux

[truthteller]

"A Government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...."
According to the scholars at Monticello (http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Government_big_enough_to_supply_you), there is no record that Thomas Jefferson ever said or wrote this. The quote actually comes from an address to Congress by President Gerald Ford.

If you wish to quote Jefferson along these lines, may I suggest instead:

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."

This comes from a letter Jefferson wrote to Edward Carrington, a delegate to the Continental Congress, in May 1788. A much more concise and elegant phrase, with a similar, if not exactly identical, meaning.

What's with all the false Jefferson quotations? Its not as if Jefferson didn't write extensively enough on a variety of subjects, that we have to go making stuff up. I'd urge anyone thinking of using a "Jefferson" quote they come across to check it with Bartleby (http://www.bartleby.com/quotations/) or the Monticello website first. And as a legal scholar, Thomas Jefferson would no doubt be familiar with the Latin:

falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus

Meaning: false in one thing, false in everything.

This legal principle was used by Roman lawyers, and is still used today, indicating that if a witness lies about one thing - it necessarily discredits everything else they say.

[MYCAR47562]

See This Quote Fix Works As You Proved Who Said It.

[nelson]

Nice. I think quotes can be misleading. We in modern times pay great attention to the shortest of quotes out of convenience, for many of us lack either the desire or the attention span necessary to understand truly complicated matters, which cannot be explained in a few lines, and therefore escape our "sitcom" notion of logic. Also, quotes cannot capture the context in which things are stated, which is very significant to their meaning. In abbreviated form, a small quote from a larger statement can convey a very different meaning than the statement intended. For instance, your quote from Jefferson about liberty yielding, and government gaining ground, is accurate -- it was actually stated in warning (Jefferson is, of course, famous for his defenses of personal liberty and the potential evils of government). Finally, I do not think that because someone we revere said something, that it is necessarily so. Jefferson, for instance, said a many things I disagree with; it doesn't matter to me that he was Thomas Jefferson. He would be the first person to admit that he is a typical human being, like each of us, having his own personal prejudices and passions which affect his judgements and opinions. All that said, here are some more quotes from Jefferson:

Gun Control (copied from the Italian Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria)
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms ... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes ... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.

On Legislating from the Bench
To consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions [is] a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men and not more so. They have with others the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps. Their maxim is boni judicis est ampliare jurisdictionem [good justice is broad jurisdiction], and their power the more dangerous as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves.

Opposing Debt and the Bank of the United States
I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."

The bottom line is, we can all probably find quotes we like from Jefferson, and quotes we don't like. It actually proves nothing. For all his skill as a writer, there really is only one immortal piece of writing Jefferson left behind; it is the Declaration of Independence, and it is definitely a masterpiece.

Professor Julian Boyd's reconstruction of Thomas Jefferson's "original Rough draught" of the Declaration of Independence
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/declara/ruffdrft.html

Incidentally, we here in Virginia know that the Declaration of Independence, and the Bill of Rights, were heavily influenced by the Virginia Declaration of Rights, which was written before them both, by George Mason, and is still legally in effect today.

Virginia Declaration of Rights (1776)
I That all men are by nature equally free and independent, and have certain inherent rights, of which, when they enter into a state of society, they cannot, by any compact, deprive or divest their posterity; namely, the enjoyment of life and liberty, with the means of acquiring and possessing property, and pursuing and obtaining happiness and safety.

II That all power is vested in, and consequently derived from, the people; that magistrates are their trustees and servants, and at all times amenable to them.

III That government is, or ought to be, instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the people, nation or community; of all the various modes and forms of government that is best, which is capable of producing the greatest degree of happiness and safety and is most effectually secured against the danger of maladministration; and that, whenever any government shall be found inadequate or contrary to these purposes, a majority of the community hath an indubitable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to reform, alter or abolish it, in such manner as shall be judged most conducive to the public weal.

IV That no man, or set of men, are entitled to exclusive or separate emoluments or privileges from the community, but in consideration of public services; which, not being descendible, neither ought the offices of magistrate, legislator, or judge be hereditary.

V That the legislative and executive powers of the state should be separate and distinct from the judicative; and, that the members of the two first may be restrained from oppression by feeling and participating the burthens of the people, they should, at fixed periods, be reduced to a private station, return into that body from which they were originally taken, and the vacancies be supplied by frequent, certain, and regular elections in which all, or any part of the former members, to be again eligible, or ineligible, as the laws shall direct.

VI That elections of members to serve as representatives of the people in assembly ought to be free; and that all men, having sufficient evidence of permanent common interest with, and attachment to, the community have the right of suffrage and cannot be taxed or deprived of their property for public uses without their own consent or that of their representatives so elected, nor bound by any law to which they have not, in like manner, assented, for the public good.

VII That all power of suspending laws, or the execution of laws, by any authority without consent of the representatives of the people is injurious to their rights and ought not to be exercised.

VIII That in all capital or criminal prosecutions a man hath a right to demand the cause and nature of his accusation to be confronted with the accusers and witnesses, to call for evidence in his favor, and to a speedy trial by an impartial jury of his vicinage, without whose unanimous consent he cannot be found guilty, nor can he be compelled to give evidence against himself; that no man be deprived of his liberty except by the law of the land or the judgement of his peers.

IX That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed; nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

X That general warrants, whereby any officer or messenger may be commanded to search suspected places without evidence of a fact committed, or to seize any person or persons not named, or whose offense is not particularly described and supported by evidence, are grievous and oppressive and ought not to be granted.

XI That in controversies respecting property and in suits between man and man, the ancient trial by jury is preferable to any other and ought to be held sacred.

XII That the freedom of the press is one of the greatest bulwarks of liberty and can never be restrained but by despotic governments.

XIII That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power.

XIV That the people have a right to uniform government; and therefore, that no government separate from, or independent of, the government of Virginia, ought to be erected or established within the limits thereof.

XV That no free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue and by frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.

XVI That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the manner of discharging it, can be directed by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore, all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity towards each other.

[MYCAR47562]

nice post nelson

[Oriondk]

"A Government big enough to supply you with everything you need, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have...."
According to the scholars at Monticello (http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/Government_big_enough_to_supply_you), there is no record that Thomas Jefferson ever said or wrote this. The quote actually comes from an address to Congress by President Gerald Ford.

If you wish to quote Jefferson along these lines, may I suggest instead:

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."

This comes from a letter Jefferson wrote to Edward Carrington, a delegate to the Continental Congress, in May 1788. A much more concise and elegant phrase, with a similar, if not exactly identical, meaning.

What's with all the false Jefferson quotations? Its not as if Jefferson didn't write extensively enough on a variety of subjects, that we have to go making stuff up. I'd urge anyone thinking of using a "Jefferson" quote they come across to check it with Bartleby (http://www.bartleby.com/quotations/) or the Monticello website first. And as a legal scholar, Thomas Jefferson would no doubt be familiar with the Latin:

falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus

Meaning: false in one thing, false in everything.

This legal principle was used by Roman lawyers, and is still used today, indicating that if a witness lies about one thing - it necessarily discredits everything else they say.

God dang it. Another one. I'm getting to where I don't trust anything I find on the internet. Thanks for setting the record straight. And thanks for the link to Bartleby.

[Johnny Dangerously]

Great post Nelson.

Brings a little depth to this sound bite mentality we have today. Anyone can take quotes (correct or incorrect) out of context to make pretty much whatever point they want to make.

Thanks also for the history. I wasn't aware that the Declaration of Independence was fashioned after the Virginia DoI.

TT - Good point on the Jefferson quote. I think sometimes we put too much stock in what we see on the Internet without due diligence to verify original source.

I myself have been guilty of that occasionally and, if you were honest, I'm sure you would say you probably have been too at times. This does not necessarily mean there is any nefarious intention, nor does it mean that the person's credibility should be summarily dismissed. If this were true then most public figures would have no credibility at all, because I think we have seen enough occasions where they have "misspoken".

That said, I will leave you with a quote that is easily verified:

"...He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone..."
-Jesus
John 8:7 KJV The Holy Bible