Israel / Hezbollah

[nelson]

Where do you begin to describe this conflict?

This time it was provoked when those terrorists captured the Israeli soldiers (http://www.forum-political.com/showthread.php?t=65).

Which is nothing new - Israel is constantly barraged by Arab terrorists who hide their bases among civilians, terrorists who understand that in today's world half the battle is fought in the court of public relations.

But Lebanon has been portrayed as one of the more "democratic" Islamic states. Therefore, some say, attacking Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon will defeat the West's hopes for reform in the Middle East.

Israel absolutely has the right to take any measure to defend itself, even when civilian casualties are unavoidable because of the cowardly tactics of Hezbollah.

The press is self-serving and from the headline down their "reports" simply cannot be trusted. Not everyone has caught on - they still wield tremendous power and have goaded the Israelis into a temporary cease fire (http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,206302,00.html). Stay tuned for more manipulation: we are already beginning to see reports (http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,206311,00.html) of dead children and I'm sure we'll be looking at their photos by tomorrow. Somehow this is supposed to make Israel look bad and it's working - despite Hezbollah deliberately locating amongst innocent children. :confused:

As usual the UN is irrelevant.

Is this battle another escalation toward the new world war?

Condi the mediator-hopeful is flying all over. She cannot put an end to centuries of hatred, but do her perceived "efforts" help the US save face in the Middle East? Or should she butt out?

Should the US help Israel or stay out of it?

["shazbat"]

We're in it up to our hair weave.
There will never be a peaceful solution, too much animosity and intolerance on both sides. Always has been, always will be.
Give them all just enough short range weaponry to sort it out amongst themselves and give Halliburton the exclusive after it's all over. Or is that already the plan?

[The_Man]

Where do you begin to describe this conflict?

I know that this is a political forum but since you ask.
I describe this conflict as Prophecy being fulfilled.



Should the US help Israel or stay out of it?

The day that the United States chooses to no longer aid Israel will be the beginning of the downfall of the US IMHO.

["shazbat"]

I realize this is a serious subject and don't mean to sound intentionally flippant BUT,
You have Israel which has several rival political parties each with their own agendas. Most will finally acceed to the general will of the government in the end.
Then you have several, yes several surround indepentdent Islamic nations, and within each you have many rival factions all pushing their own agendas and it's well know that none of them will ever come to a consensus nor can the factions been controlled by the generally weak national governments.
No peace process can ever succeed with out total adherence to the process by all parties. And there needs to be consensus on how to deal with factions that refuse to join in.
The only thing they can all agree on is that they hate Israel and most hate the US as well.
Bottom line is there is no chance of lasting peace, or even short term peace.
With out a cultural shift that leads to mind shift there never will be. And with hatred the turn to religious fundamentalism will never allow that cultural shift.

[nelson]

The Man, no doubt there has been prophecy, and I agree we absolutely must continue to aid Israel.

I agree with you too shazbat, without a massive cultural shift in the middle east, there will never be peace. The west has had its middle age and its renaissance - during the latter we reformed our religion, found new ways to live with each other, even spawned America.

[nelson]

I think the escalation of this conflict will lead to much of the world uniting against Israel.

How and why nations in this world could conceivably unite... with Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, other terrorists, and other evil regimes? I have my own opinions about the western press and the spinelessness of societies in general. But for whatever reason, it's already starting.

That will leave the United States, England, and Israel to defend the West. Not sure who else, if anyone, will help us - say what you will, many European nations will probably sit out.

Some will whine and blame and call for world peace... conceivably in an effort to stop the unstoppable... but they will actually be ignoring the reality (it cannot be stopped, the middle east is too primitive) and contributing to the obstacle, contributing to the death toll.

The sick president of Iran has already stated (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,206823,00.html) the solution to this problem is the destruction of Israel. We know where Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Venezuela stand. Russia just published its list of terrorist groups, which does not include (http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2006/07/28/1708144-ap.html) Hamas or Hezbollah... so we can already see how they are aligning.

This is it.. prophecy unfolding indeed, The Man.

[The_Man]

I can’t believe what I hearing. Hesbala is claiming victory, Lebanon says they will not do “Israel’s dirty work” and disarm Hesbala as mandated by the UN, Syria and Iran keep ranting to only provoke. Soon the UN “Peacekeepers” will be in charge of preventing Hesbala from rearming. I don’t see much of a chance of success at peace. The real problem is Iran and until the western world recognizes this and is willing to confront Iran with serious consequences the problem will only get worse.
Israel did nothing to provoke this conflict and has done nothing but conceded to western pressure and received nothing positive in return. Israel is truly becoming a “burdensome stone” to all that support her, and it is my fervent prayer that we, The U.S., continue to do so. These are certainly interesting times to be witnessing.

[Brewski]

Do you still think of Isreal as the BAD ASSES that you use to or have they become Americanized pussys that when someone attacks us we should check with the left wing media and see what are poll numbers will do before we respond.
It looked to me like "bad world press" made the policy makers wimp out rather then keep kicking the terrorists butts.
Just my 2 cent.

["shazbat"]

I believe they relied on the ability of intelligence and "strategic air strikes" alone to best a scattered and diversified enemy without doing gross damage to the Lebanese as a whole.
I think it's a strategy that is showing itself as flawed.
You either wipe the slate clean and let "God" sort them out or you adopt a strategy that demands more man-to-man contact and that's deadly expensive to both sides.
Had Israel not cared at all about the Lebanese they could have used more of a "scorched earth" policy and been mush more effective against Hezbollah.

[Teiwaz]

The whole Middle East does my friggin head in, I swear. I find the posts in this thread really interesting, but I just never see a way it will ever end. I see the conflict ebbing and flowing and evolving, but I just can't see the end of it, ever. I don't think these societies are "primitive". They are ancient, and subtly advanced in ways we don't appreciate because of our very different cultural bias. They APPEAR primitive in ways by which we judge advancement and sophistication, and certainly I think the whole region has a bad case of resting on its "cradle of civilisation" laurels. What have you done for me lately baby?

Every major religion has done horrendous things in the past, as have most cultures that have been around long enough to matter, but what I see in a very general sense in that the "West", for want of a better term (and to some degree I exclude Eastern Europe), and parts of Asia have made a lot of progress in advancing standards of living for most of the plebs, along with human rights, dealing with corruption, recognition of sovereignty, religious freedom etc. Democracy may not be perfect, but given the choice I doubt too many people would choose to be born in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon etc over the USA, UK, Western Europe, Australia etc. Being a tourist in these cultures to appreciate diversity is one thing (suspending for the moment the liklihood of being kidnapped and murdered or blown up), but living like the majority of the locals do 100% of the time? No thanks.

So how do you describe the conflict? I am not sure about this prophecy you guys are talking about, but I see it as just more of the same. My very limited knowledge of history in this region seems to indicate that this stuff has been going on since Jesus played full back for Jerusalem. The opinion leaders and real controllers are the religious leaders, and I don't care how often I hear someone telling me about how beautiful Islam really is as a religion, I can't name too many Christian Jihadists kicking around right now, and I don't see all these supposed moderates speaking out against the extremeists. Even the bloody extremists can't agree, and I think that if they didn't have the USA and Israel as a common enemy, they would all turn on themselves just because they would not know how to live in peace with a load of weed and their own clone.